Ta-Ta Tony Bliar

[2NaFish]

He'll be gone on June 27th, anyone gonna miss him?

Watched his resignation speech today, spent half his time trying to justify ignoring the opinions of the majority of the country whilst congratulating himself for spreakding democracy.

Anyway, bring on the next arsehole who is going to ignore us.....

[sunnyp]

Good riddance. The only good thing to come out of new labour is the strong economy and that is credit to Gordon Brown.

Tony Blair lost his credibility on about Sept 12 2001 when he thought he could influence America but just ended up becoming Bush's bitch.

To be perfectly honest I hope he rots in hell. He has the blood of so many innocent men, women and children on his hands.

Pity Gordon Brown is even worse that Blair. Plus he's got that stupid thing he does with his mouth between words.

[dman1991]

you bastards, I was hoping bush would go first, you beat us to it.

+ 1 Point to the english, total score after ww2

Us   Minus alot

Gb  Minus alot plus 1

[Karin_Sixx]

Thank fuck for that, he really has spent the last 10 years destroying our country for the most part, but then again, the next person will probably also be a complete waste of space.

Vote for me instead, I can do stuff.

[PurpleHaze]

Thank fuck for that, he really has spent the last 10 years destroying our country

Actually, I'd say new labour under Blair improved our country on the whole.

The problem is that they royally fucked up other countries.

[sunnyp]

Yeah, I'm temping at Social Services in Southampton until I go to Russia and I can definately see how Labour have tried to help poorer families with new inner city initiatives and financial support, but for every great idea Blair has had a crackpot idea like inner city academies or war in Asia/Middle East.

On the whole our country is better but that is because of the hard work from the civil service and backbench politics which Tony Blair is so seperate from/shafted on so many occasions.

I have and will always vote Labour but they need to rediscover their roots and sort it out before the next election or Cameron will sneak in and fuck da joint up.

[Faxl]

Just dont vote at all. Tonys Labour have fucked up the NHS, Iraq, our minds, etc...

[PurpleHaze]

Tonys Labour have fucked up the NHS, Iraq, our minds, etc...

Yeah, because the NHS was going along swimmingly in 1996.

Just dont vote at all.

If you don't vote, you don't have a right to moan.

[2NaFish]

people have a right to moan regardless of whether they vote or not. what a ridiculous thing to say.

[PurpleHaze]

It isn't actually, when you think about it.

[2NaFish]

It isn't actually, when you think about it.

i had a think about it.

in fact....

....i wrote an essay on it. my proffessor, http://www.gla.ac.uk/Acad/Philosophy/Personnel/dudley/index.html, (who wrote the book on political philosophy and the obligations of the citizen http://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Philosophy-Fundamentals-Dudley-Knowles/dp/1857285506) agreed with me.

[PurpleHaze]

Wow.

Well that shut me up.

Edit:

The way I was looking at it, wasting your vote or ignorantly using it and then moaning is like being Andy from Little Britain. 

"I want that one"

"I don't like it"

Well you should have thought about that before.

The only legitimate wasting of a vote as I saw it is was a genuine protest vote when you disagree with every candidate.

Actively discouraging people to vote as it was put seemed a little ridiculous to me.
 
So what are your thoughts then? I'd be interested to hear your opinion on this.

[2NaFish]

basically, the duties of a citizen in a democracy do not include the need to vote.

imagine the scenario....what if the view of a citizen was that democracy was shit and that they wanted a dictatorship? why should they vote? surely by voting in a democratic election they are endorsing all that they stand against? That is an impossible situation.

By your logic (if you dont vote then you can't comment on gov.) it is impossible to hold a view that is anti-democratic. As that is an impossible situation, your argument falls down due to the fallacy of reductio ad absurdum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum)

or, if you prefer

1. A citizen has no right to comment if they dont vote
2. A citizen wants to express their opinion, and that is that they don't want democracy.
Therefore 1+2=3
3. A citizen must endorse democracy in order to remove it.

And that doesnt make sense. There, i've just saved you reading a 3000 word essay.

[PurpleHaze]

Thanks 

A bit pedantic though considering the context 

It's kind of implicit that most people, including the poster in question wouldn't be supportive of a dictatorship.

*waits for Faxl to confess to his neo nazi stance to spite me*

Not that I would have came to your (correct) conclusion if he was anyway   

[2NaFish]

thats only one scenario mind. there are dozens of others that do the same job, this was merely a 'fun' example.

yes, fun in the philosophical sense of the word.


(not that i'm absolutely certainly right either. there are counter points to my model which could be used, but for the sake of a thread on a gn'r forum about tony bliar quitting i think i'll keep them to myself.)

[PurpleHaze]

thats only one scenario mind. there are dozens of others that do the same job, this was merely a 'fun' example.

Damn. Instead of "supportive of a dictatorship" I should have worded it "supportive of democracy". That would rule out all the alternatives :p

[OctoberRain]

so did he resign or did he 'resign'?

[2NaFish]

so did he resign or did he 'resign'?

he'd been in charge for a decade and made the choice to stand down of his own accord - he wasnt pushed from within nor was he forced out by public demand.

however, mistakes like a shitty NHS and Iraq meant the part had little prospects with him at the helm, and his no.2 , Gordon Brown, has been waiting in the wings for a decade and had been promised the premiership a long time ago.

so yes and no really.

[OctoberRain]

hmm. so how will it work? does somebody just take over, or are there gonna be elections? Or does Parliament elect the PM? or am I just completely wrong?

well hopefully this, and our elections in 08, will finally change some things

[2NaFish]

he has resinged as leader of his party, so they (the members of the labour party. not just MPs but members of the labour party throughout the land) will elect a new leader and he will automatically become the new prime minister. however, there is only one real candidate so the election will just be for show.

gordon brown is no different to tony blair, in many ways i think he'll be worse.

[OctoberRain]

he has resinged as leader of his party, so they (the members of the labour party. not just MPs but members of the labour party throughout the land) will elect a new leader and he will automatically become the new prime minister. however, there is only one real candidate so the election will just be for show.

gordon brown is no different to tony blair, in many ways i think he'll be worse.

its crazy how governments can be different, but function effectively the same (at least in my limited knowledge)

yeah, but a new page is a new page you know? Hopefully, it'll be different. We'll just wait and see

[nemo]

tony bliar

top notch Freudian slip right there

[Duffer]

I say bring Monarchy back! Let the queen rule once more!

[2NaFish]

top notch Freudian slip right there

yeah, i should stick it on a t-shirt or something...

[I ARE ESS]

thanks fuck

new labour have fucked our country right up

i hope they dont get in again

[PurpleHaze]

thanks fuck

new labour have fucked our country right up

I dunno, people say stuff like that but can you honestly point out a part of your life that has been significantly reduced in quality because of new labour? That wasn't justified in any way?

[I ARE ESS]

I dunno, people say stuff like that but can you honestly point out a part of your life that has been significantly reduced in quality because of new labour? That wasn't justified in any way?

i feel screwed over is all
simply cos of this war
the nhs are a rediculous amount of money in debt
and my tax is payin for a war i completely disagree with
where it could be actually better spent on nhs
or public transport (making it better , service etc)
if i wanna do anyhtin about it
my only option would be to stop pain taxes
then i get arrested for tax evasion

i didnt trust blair
i certainly dont trust brown
fuck knows what will happen now

[Macca333]

How exactly has he fucked up the country? Does anyone remember what the country was like in 1996, it was in a right state - thats why hundreds of people greeted Blair with flags at Downing Street cos the tories had fucked us over royally. He might not of achieved everything he promised but we are certainly better off than we were then in social terms. If he was so bad then how come he continued to be re-elected even after the Iraq war which everyone hates so much. I don't like a lot of things hes done but I think he always done what he thinks was right even if it has turned out to be a nightmare - i.e. Iraq. It is very easy to stand back and slag off a PM but i think in the future people will realise he wasn't actually that bad.

[RyanRose]

Good riddance. The only good thing to come out of new labour is the strong economy and that is credit to Gordon Brown.

I would disagree with that. brown has sold off most of our gold reserves which the Bank of England did not approve of. http://http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1654931.ece

He has also taken out massive loans but of course the sleath taxs will pay them off.

Mr Blair and Browns solution is to throw money. Hence the problems with the NHS