Axl's book views reviewed in UK paper

[ryn_smith]

I just finished CITR, I enjoyed it, but didn't seem any better or worse than any other books I have read.

EDIT: I think I got how it affected Mark Chapman.
I'll keep it short, but would it have been that:

Holden called a lot of things, like holywood etc, phony, and he dreams about being the CITR, i.e saving or stopping children from becoming "phony" and

something like, Chapman felt that the beatles were "phony" and felt that he was/is like holden, the CITR, and by killing Lennon he wud "save" children

[ryn_smith]

Someone tell me if I am close, or am I way off??

[badfaulkner]

Someone tell me if I am close, or am I way off??

IMO, way off, no offense. 

Holden wanted to "save" people like himself, not murder them.  I can see Holden in a great conversation with Lennon, even saying something too deep for Yoko to get.  But not shooting him. 

[ryn_smith]

IMO, way off, no offense. 

Holden wanted to "save" people like himself, not murder them.  I can see Holden in a great conversation with Lennon, even saying something too deep for Yoko to get.  But not shooting him. 

None taken, But Chapman cud hav takin the book a different way...

Did he ever say y he did it?

I rented tht film "the killing of john lennon" I'm gona watch it now, maybe itll give some "Insight"

[axlsalinger]

You might also want to rent the movie Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson as well. It's not a very good film, but it uses Catcher in the Rye as part of the plot along with the fact that several killers have been obsessed with this book (including Chapman and I think Hinckley, the guy who shot Reagan in the early 80's, and I forget who else).

My personal belief is that the occasional loner nutcase identifies a little too strongly with Holden Caulfield, I mean most people who read the book identify with him and I take offence to phony people myself, but Holden is a loner and I think these nutjobs get all self-righteous about it, and think they are in some way special and that everyone else are phonies who don't "understand" them, and that the world is basically unjust and against them. Just like Holden they identify with children because they are innocent, and want to protect them, but have a problem with adult society because they don't fit in. I think Axl explores this mindset in the song.

As I've said many times, it's a great book, my favourite in fact, Salinger himself is the ultimate loner and Holden is a great character, but the fact that he ends up in a loony bin at the end of the book is no coincidence, Salinger understood that while there are a lot of phonies out there, in the end Holden was wrong to condemn everyone as phony, and that the world is a far more complicated place than Holden believes it to be at his young age.

As for Lennon, Chapman became obsessed with him and felt he was a phony because of lines like "Imagine no possessions" in 'Imagine', while at the same time being extremely rich and spending all kinds of money on possessions.

http://www.lennon-chapman.com/new4.htm

"Mark Chapman read and re-read this book during 1979 and 1980, until he came to believe the book had been written to express his own life. He identified so strongly with the fictional character of the book, he told his wife he wanted to change his name to Holden Caulfield.

Holden mirrored Chapman and Chapman mirrored Holden.

He had to go to New York to walk in Holden's footsteps.

He saw himself as the new "Catcher" for his generation, and believed his story would become the new final chapter in the book.

 In spring 1980 Chapman had borrowed Anthony Fawcett's "John Lennon - One Day At A Time" from the Library, and read it over and over again.

The super-rich lifestyle of this so called "working class hero" shocked and appalled Chapman. He was outraged by Lennon's phoniness, angered by Lennon's spending sprees and his seemingly arbitrary accumulation of material possessions."

[badfaulkner]

None taken, But Chapman cud hav takin the book a different way...

Did he ever say y he did it?

I rented tht film "the killing of john lennon" I'm gona watch it now, maybe itll give some "Insight"

I think MDC was/is schizophrenic.  Let me know how that movie is.  I'm very interested!

[badfaulkner]

You might also want to rent the movie Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson as well. It's not a very good film, but it uses Catcher in the Rye as part of the plot along with the fact that several killers have been obsessed with this book (including Chapman and I think Hinckley, the guy who shot Reagan in the early 80's, and I forget who else).

My personal belief is that the occasional loner nutcase identifies a little too strongly with Holden Caulfield, I mean most people who read the book identify with him and I take offence to phony people myself, but Holden is a loner and I think these nutjobs get all self-righteous about it, and think they are in some way special and that everyone else are phonies who don't "understand" them, and that the world is basically unjust and against them. Just like Holden they identify with children because they are innocent, and want to protect them, but have a problem with adult society because they don't fit in. I think Axl explores this mindset in the song.

As I've said many times, it's a great book, my favourite in fact, Salinger himself is the ultimate loner and Holden is a great character, but the fact that he ends up in a loony bin at the end of the book is no coincidence, Salinger understood that while there are a lot of phonies out there, in the end Holden was wrong to condemn everyone as phony, and that the world is a far more complicated place than Holden believes it to be at his young age.

As for Lennon, Chapman became obsessed with him and felt he was a phony because of lines like "Imagine no possessions" in 'Imagine', while at the same time being extremely rich and spending all kinds of money on possessions.

http://www.lennon-chapman.com/new4.htm

"Mark Chapman read and re-read this book during 1979 and 1980, until he came to believe the book had been written to express his own life. He identified so strongly with the fictional character of the book, he told his wife he wanted to change his name to Holden Caulfield.

Holden mirrored Chapman and Chapman mirrored Holden.

He had to go to New York to walk in Holden's footsteps.

He saw himself as the new "Catcher" for his generation, and believed his story would become the new final chapter in the book.

 In spring 1980 Chapman had borrowed Anthony Fawcett's "John Lennon - One Day At A Time" from the Library, and read it over and over again.

The super-rich lifestyle of this so called "working class hero" shocked and appalled Chapman. He was outraged by Lennon's phoniness, angered by Lennon's spending sprees and his seemingly arbitrary accumulation of material possessions."

Great post.  Thanks for the info! 

[ryn_smith]

I think MDC was/is schizophrenic.  Let me know how that movie is.  I'm very interested!

Personally, I thought it was quite interesting, and is well-done. It doesn't really give any more answers than 'axlsalinger' just mentioned about why he did it, but I had never heard anything about MDC apart from ''he killed john lennon, because of CITR'', so in that sense I found it intriguing, and it uses actual speech from MDC in the film...

[badfaulkner]

Personally, I thought it was quite interesting, and is well-done. It doesn't really give any more answers than 'axlsalinger' just mentioned about why he did it, but I had never heard anything about MDC apart from ''he killed john lennon, because of CITR'', so in that sense I found it intriguing, and it uses actual speech from MDC in the film...

Have you read Perks of Being a Wallflower? I highly recommend it although some critics have called it a CITR rip-off. I think that assessment is unduly harsh, if not blatantly untrue. 

[ryn_smith]

Have you read Perks of Being a Wallflower? I highly recommend it although some critics have called it a CITR rip-off. I think that assessment is unduly harsh, if not blatantly untrue. 

No, I haven't, but thanks, I'll look into it.

There are a lot of books that I should read, that I haven't, but I've got plenty of time to do it

[badfaulkner]

No, I haven't, but thanks, I'll look into it.

There are a lot of books that I should read, that I haven't, but I've got plenty of time to do it

It's very short, seriously.  You could read it in two days.  I really liked it.  Appeals across generations, too.