Abortion - Is it really the womans right to choose?

[axlrose4eva]

did you watch the videos?

...


People watch the vids please! 

I dont have time right now im on my way out but i promise to watch them when I get home

[Bumbles N Roses]

nothing more than scare tactics. i'm an evolved human being who makes decisions based on logic rather than fear.

I make decisions on logic as well.  I also make decisions based on my conscience.  I also make them a cording to my emotions, for example you want to talk to people that you care about and you avoid people you don't like. The videos are not for the purpose of scaring.  Rather the opposite.  They are supposed to induce a self reflection type thing.  And to induce a loving attitude towards the defenseless babies.

I dont have time right now im on my way out but i promise to watch them when I get home

There is some ugly/sad stuff in there.  Watching someone die isnt too fun, if you know what I mean.

[Janies Got A Gun]

janie your argument is fundamentally flawed as it assumes that all abortions kill a child, when in fact it is nothing of the sort. personally i wouldn't endorse it but to call it murder is misrepresentation of the situation

But I done see it like that. Thats why this is always an interesting debate. I get your point ya, the fetus or whichever you like to call it, is about to form into a baby, a human, a living thing. I still dont think anyone should have the right to choose whether it lives or dies.

If you want to throw some scenerios at me, it might be easier to explain.

As for the videos, i cant watch them, in school i saw images of abortions and that was more than enough for me. I think they should be shown to girls/women before they have them. I dont believe the "counselling" they receieve beforehand is good enough. How can a counselling session determine whether say a 16year old girl is ready to have abortion? How do you make sure she wont regret it in 5 years time?

I dont think the video is a based on fear, its just reality. A life is being taken either way

if the fetus isnt a full fetus and has no heart beat then its not ganna feel anything..

I dont think thats the point, its still being killed. Thats like saying its ok to kill someone dosed up on painkillers. Its ok to murder them because they can;t feel it?

[a_bitch_called_hope]

if the fetus isnt a full fetus and has no heart beat then its not ganna feel anything..

The heart can be seen beating on an ultrasound from around 5 weeks of pregnancy, most women wouldn't even realise they were pregnant at this time.

I don't think abortion should be illegal although personally it's not something I would ever contemplate.  I do think they should make the cut off limit something like 12 weeks instead of 24 weeks.

[Bumbles N Roses]

But I done see it like that. Thats why this is always an interesting debate. I get your point ya, the fetus or whichever you like to call it, is about to form into a baby, a human, a living thing. I still dont think anyone should have the right to choose whether it lives or dies.

If you want to throw some scenerios at me, it might be easier to explain.

As for the videos, i cant watch them, in school i saw images of abortions and that was more than enough for me. I think they should be shown to girls/women before they have them. I dont believe the "counselling" they receieve beforehand is good enough. How can a counselling session determine whether say a 16year old girl is ready to have abortion? How do you make sure she wont regret it in 5 years time?

I dont think the video is a based on fear, its just reality. A life is being taken either way

DO NOT READ THIS IF IT WILL DISTURB YOU:


In one of the videos it shows through illustration a baby being ripped apart, by a tong like apparatus, limb by limb until just the head is left, after which the skull is crushed and removed.


In another video it shows footage from an ultrasound of a baby being  sucked down a tube then having its skull crushed with tongs and pulled out.

[2NaFish]

you cant make conclusions based on logic and emotion. the two confuse one another and are competely exclusive.

watching someone have a heart bypass is disgusting to see, by your argument it should be banned as it is unpleasant. what i've just employed is whats called a reductio ad absurdum argument and completely negates what your saying. i'm not saying theres no case for the anti-abortion cause but simply because it is unpleasant is ludicrously weak.

[Roxy19]

I just cant understand how someone can do this... it's a selfish act 

[Janies Got A Gun]

DO NOT READ THIS IF IT WILL DISTURB YOU:


In one of the videos it shows through illustration a baby being ripped apart, by a tong like apparatus, limb by limb until just the head is left, after which the skull is crushed and removed.


In another video it shows footage from an ultrasound of a baby being  sucked down a tube then having its skull crushed with tongs and pulled out.

Thats horrific. Then theres the backstreet abortions that are so widely used. Done with clothes hangers and all sorts.

I remember one picture of ripped up baby parts all bloody, thrown in a bin outside a clinic. A group of girls did a really good in depth project on it. It made alot of us cry actually. It was horrible but really interesting.

[2NaFish]

But I done see it like that. Thats why this is always an interesting debate. I get your point ya, the fetus or whichever you like to call it, is about to form into a baby, a human, a living thing. I still dont think anyone should have the right to choose whether it lives or dies.

If you want to throw some scenerios at me, it might be easier to explain.

its not a case for scenario. the simple fact is that its not a feotus untill atleast 8 weeks. you may feel its a human being but its not. nothing more than an incomplete chemical reaction. even after 8 weeks its not a human being, but certainly not before then.

[2NaFish]

Thats horrific. Then theres the backstreet abortions that are so widely used. Done with clothes hangers and all sorts.

great. so make abortion illegal and everyone will go to backstreet abortionist.

ANYWAY - most abortions carried out in the UK use a chemical pill. but why let fact get in the way of emotion

[RP88]

you cant make conclusions based on logic and emotion. the two confuse one another and are competely exclusive.

Exactly. Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool.

In terms of abortion, I'm all for it. While I don't condone stupid girls getting knocked up and then jsut getting rif of the baby, it's much better that than having a child born into a terrible life. What if it was a baby girl who was born and in 17 years she becomes like her good ole' slutty mom?

Not only will it potentially be tough on the child, but also on all the people involved. Why bring in a grandmother or friends to have to worsen their lives? It's bad enough that the child, mother and hopefully father (assuming he's still around) are going to have a hard time getting by with the unexpected child. There's enough problems in this world and if we can prevent more of them, then why not?

[Janies Got A Gun]

you cant make conclusions based on logic and emotion. the two confuse one another and are competely exclusive.

watching someone have a heart bypass is disgusting to see, by your argument it should be banned as it is unpleasant. what i've just employed is whats called a reductio ad absurdum argument and completely negates what your saying. i'm not saying theres no case for the anti-abortion cause but simply because it is unpleasant is ludicrously weak.

If your referring to me, thats not really the point im making. Just because something is unpleasant dosent mean it shouldnt be done? I dont think anyone said that really.

Giving someone a bypass is prolonging their life, its completly different. Your deciding for youself whether you want it or not. In the case of an abortion your basiclly deciding for someone else. Your not even giving them a chance.



What roxy said is true also.. abortions are selfish. Its only thinking about themselves and not their unborn baby.

its not a case for scenario. the simple fact is that its not a feotus untill atleast 8 weeks. you may feel its a human being but its not. nothing more than an incomplete chemical reaction. even after 8 weeks its not a human being, but certainly not before then.

But from my point of view, its going to evolve into a human. Whether it can feel being pulled apart isnt the sole issue. Its being destroyed and its not up to the mother to play god and decide that.

As for making abortion illegal or not,,, hmm im not so sure. I like how it is here in Ireland. Its illegal. If people need one they have to go to the UK. This means a alot of thought and effort is gone to to have the abortion. In england its a case of ringing up and walking to the nearest clinic. Not enough thought is put into it.

Dont get me wrong - I dont like abortions - and id never have one. I dont agree with travelling to england to get one done but i feel more thought is put into it at least

Exactly. Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool.

In terms of abortion, I'm all for it. While I don't condone stupid girls getting knocked up and then jsut getting rif of the baby, it's much better that than having a child born into a terrible life. What if it was a baby girl who was born and in 17 years she becomes like her good ole' slutty mom?

Not only will it potentially be tough on the child, but also on all the people involved. Why bring in a grandmother or friends to have to worsen their lives? It's bad enough that the child, mother and hopefully father (assuming he's still around) are going to have a hard time getting by with the unexpected child. There's enough problems in this world and if we can prevent more of them, then why not?

The child should still be given the chance. The child might grow up and make a fantastic job. The child can also be given up for adoption to a loving couple unable to have their own kids.

Again, i understand your point but i dont agree. You can't decide who lives and who dies.

I dont think its very fair to call me a fool for believing in something

[a_bitch_called_hope]

In terms of abortion, I'm all for it. While I don't condone stupid girls getting knocked up and then jsut getting rif of the baby, it's much better that than having a child born into a terrible life. What if it was a baby girl who was born and in 17 years she becomes like her good ole' slutty mom?

It's not just girls who are stupid for having unprotected sex.  Also you don't need to be a slut to fall pregnant, even if you're having the only sex of your life, condoms can split.

[2NaFish]

If your referring to me, thats not really the point im making. Just because something is unpleasant dosent mean it shouldnt be done? I dont think anyone said that really.

Giving someone a bypass is prolonging their life, its completly different. Your deciding for youself whether you want it or not. In the case of an abortion your basiclly deciding for someone else. Your not even giving them a chance.

It wasnt aimed at you. But since you answered it i'll reply. Basically your logic is flawed. If something is wrong because its unpleasant to observe, which was the point, then it logically follows that all things that are unpleasant should be banned. Your point, once again, that there is a human at the other end, which is wrong. So you're logically flawed and factually incorrect.

What roxy said is true also.. abortions are selfish. Its only thinking about themselves and not their unborn baby.
But from my point of view, its going to evolve into a human. Whether it can feel being pulled apart isnt the sole issue. Its being destroyed and its not up to the mother to play god and decide that.

by that logic wearing a condom is murder. if the man wasnt wearing it then a baby would ensue. Once again this is a reductio ad absurdum argument that takes yours to a logical and totally ridiculous conclusion proving your point to be wrong.

As for making abortion illegal or not,,, hmm im not so sure. I like how it is here in Ireland. Its illegal. If people need one they have to go to the UK. This means a alot of thought and effort is gone to to have the abortion. In england its a case of ringing up and walking to the nearest clinic. Not enough thought is put into it.

Dont get me wrong - I dont like abortions - and id never have one. I dont agree with travelling to england to get one done but i feel more thought is put into it at least

The child should still be given the chance. The child might grow up and make a fantastic job. The child can also be given up for adoption to a loving couple unable to have their own kids.

Again, i understand your point but i dont agree. You can't decide who lives and who dies.

whats the point in making it illegal only to condone making it legal elsewhere. pointless and dangerous.

and by saying "you cant decide who lives and dies" you assume its a human when its not. i dont agree with killing humans, but abortion isnt that.