Abortion - Is it really the womans right to choose?

[RP88]

It's not just girls who are stupid for having unprotected sex.  Also you don't need to be a slut to fall pregnant, even if you're having the only sex of your life, condoms can split.

I agree... I was kind of pointing out how generally these things occur. Unfortunately the way humans are though, men don't suffer for being idiots in this situation. If they have any sort of conscience or moral obligation they will, but they can also get away.

And Janie, i wasn't calling you a fool. I was just respnding to 2na's statement which I found to be true. You argue that a child could go on to get a good job and good life... but using logic and percentages here, we know that it is far more likely for the child to have a rough life. In terms of adoption, I'd have to look more into the stats on it. I believe that the amount of kids being born outnumbers the amount of good parents wanting to adopt but I am not sure about this.

[Janies Got A Gun]

It wasnt aimed at you. But since you answered it i'll reply. Basically your logic is flawed. If something is wrong because its unpleasant to observe, which was the point, then it logically follows that all things that are unpleasant should be banned. Your point, once again, that there is a human at the other end, which is wrong. So you're logically flawed and factually incorrect.
by that logic wearing a condom is murder. if the man wasnt wearing it then a baby would ensue. Once again this is a reductio ad absurdum argument that takes yours to a logical and totally ridiculous conclusion proving your point to be wrong.

I dont see condoms as murder. I made it clear that there has to be a cut off point and my cut off point is where the sperm fertilises the egg. Thats just what i beleieve to be right.

whats the point in making it illegal only to condone making it legal elsewhere. pointless and dangerous.

and by saying "you cant decide who lives and dies" you assume its a human when its not. i dont agree with killing humans, but abortion isnt that.

I basically meant that its making the best of a bad situation. At least here some thought goes into it. The same cannot be said for countries where its legal.
If I had my way it would be illegal everywhere and having one would result in a prison sentence.

As for condoms splitting etc.. again very unfortunate circumstances but the baby shouldn't suffer. If your responsible enough to have sex you need to be responsible enough to have a baby.

I agree... I was kind of pointing out how generally these things occur. Unfortunately the way humans are though, men don't suffer for being idiots in this situation. If they have any sort of conscience or moral obligation they will, but they can also get away.

And Janie, i wasn't calling you a fool. I was just respnding to 2na's statement which I found to be true. You argue that a child could go on to get a good job and good life... but using logic and percentages here, we know that it is far more likely for the child to have a rough life. In terms of adoption, I'd have to look more into the stats on it. I believe that the amount of kids being born outnumbers the amount of good parents wanting to adopt but I am not sure about this.

Fair enough in the relation to stats but i really dont think its fair to go: "well its most likely this kid will have a shit life, lets terminate it"

[JLR]

Abortions for all!

[2NaFish]

I dont see condoms as murder. I made it clear that there has to be a cut off point and my cut off point is where the sperm fertilises the egg. Thats just what i beleieve to be right.

but you do. you do.

you said its wrong to stop it if its going to evolve into a human - your words. if the condom is there then it is there to stop the creation of a human. therefore, by your logic, it is murder. see how my scheme works? you say something and i see if it makes sense. in this case it doesnt in the slightest.

I basically meant that its making the best of a bad situation. At least here some thought goes into it. The same cannot be said for countries where its legal.
If I had my way it would be illegal everywhere and having one would result in a prison sentence.

making it legal reqires no thought? absurd. nonsense. do you realise how many thousands of man hours of work goes into creating and maintaining abortion laws in britain nevermind every other country?

 As for putting people in jail for it you would just drive it underground risking the womans life. hows that for thought out? and what would it solve anyway? nothing

[2NaFish]

Abortions for all!

Boo

Abortions for none

Boo

Abortions for those who want them, no abortions for those who dont

Yay.



I too love taking jokes from halloween episodes of the simpsons.

[Karin_Sixx]

I wouldn't even think twice about having an abortion.
I'd never have kids before having my own house, loving relationship with my partner and enough money to support my family.

[Bumbles N Roses]

you cant make conclusions based on logic and emotion. the two confuse one another and are competely exclusive.

watching someone have a heart bypass is disgusting to see, by your argument it should be banned as it is unpleasant. what i've just employed is whats called a reductio ad absurdum argument and completely negates what your saying. i'm not saying theres no case for the anti-abortion cause but simply because it is unpleasant is ludicrously weak.

Yes you can make conclusions on logic and others on emotion, different scenarios call for different ways of making decisions.  I was not basing my argument of a unpleasant factor, rather that you are killing someone very violently.  The stuff done by dahmer was illegal, yes?  But he ripped apart people in the same way as an abortion.  It is killing someone,Its not killing an animal, its not killing a cell it is killing someone.    The whole it has no heartbeat thing holds no water, are cells "living" in every sense of the word.  A scientist would say yes, so why would a baby not be?  Plus just because a heart may not be beating, means ther is not a complete heart to be beating it is developing, yet the baby is still alive.  A person is dead when their heart stops, NOT before it starts. 

[PurpleHaze]

I've thought about abortion as an issue for sooo long and I'm still undecided.

I think it should be allowed but I don't know where the boundaries should be. When does it become a human life? Who can say?

Who even knows?

One thing I can say is that I'm not exactly fond of the idea, nor do I think it should be a decision taken lightly.

As early as possible. The time limits on abortion law around the world range from uncomfortable to sickening.

[2NaFish]

Yes you can make conclusions on logic and others on emotion, different scenarios call for different ways of making decisions. 

never said anything to the contrary. i said you cant make a conclusion on one issue based on a mixture of emotion and logic.

[Karin_Sixx]

As early as possible. The time limits on abortion law around the world range from uncomfortable to sickening.

I know, what is ours? Did it get changed from 24wks to 20? Or is it still 24? Which I think is terrible to have as a 'cut off' point. I definatly think should only be able to be done a lot earlier than that.

[Janies Got A Gun]

but you do. you do.

you said its wrong to stop it if its going to evolve into a human - your words. if the condom is there then it is there to stop the creation of a human. therefore, by your logic, it is murder. see how my scheme works? you say something and i see if it makes sense. in this case it doesnt in the slightest.
making it legal reqires no thought? absurd. nonsense. do you realise how many thousands of man hours of work goes into creating and maintaining abortion laws in britain nevermind every other country?

 As for putting people in jail for it you would just drive it underground risking the womans life. hows that for thought out? and what would it solve anyway? nothing

I dont think we're going to come to an agreement

[Use Your Illusion III]

I'm for abortion, not sure why.... just never seen anything wrong with it. Especially now that stem cells hold alot of promise and fetuses are chalked full of em

[Gunns]

nothing wrong with Abortion, its the couples choice (/womans choice) if she wants it done,
and why have a baby if they dont want one?
it will be neglected when its born,
and the mother could be a substance abuser whilst shes pregnant so it could have deformities when its born so who knows.

[nemo]

Yes you can make conclusions on logic and others on emotion, different scenarios call for different ways of making decisions.  I was not basing my argument of a unpleasant factor, rather that you are killing someone very violently.  The stuff done by dahmer was illegal, yes?  But he ripped apart people in the same way as an abortion.  It is killing someone,Its not killing an animal, its not killing a cell it is killing someone.    The whole it has no heartbeat thing holds no water, are cells "living" in every sense of the word.  A scientist would say yes, so why would a baby not be?  Plus just because a heart may not be beating, means ther is not a complete heart to be beating it is developing, yet the baby is still alive.  A person is dead when their heart stops, NOT before it starts. 

Oh come on now, by the logic you're currently deploying every time I move I've just murdered several billion living things.  Let's think about things at least a little before we engage our fingers.  Abortion is about as akin to murder as it is to drinking a cup of tea.

And being dead and not being alive are two completely different things.  Not having died yet does not mean that you're alive yet unless we're gonna make masturbation illegal on the basis that the ejected sperm cells are living things which would have developed a heartbeat had they gone into a uterus rather than a sock.