Abortion - Is it really the womans right to choose?

[Rocket Queen]

If you're a seahorse and you can carry the baby to term and give birth to it, fair enough.

And no, the pill doesn't agree with everyone, I know it does the job, but the side effects for some girls can make life pretty unbearable.  I'm not sure clinical depression's something I'd be willing to put up with just because a guy decided he didn't enjoy condoms as much.

This. Iconic.. you have no clue what you're talking about. Yes, in most cases the pill will have little to no side effects, if it's the right one for you. A lot of progress have been made in the recent years.

However, I've personally experienced the hell it can put you through. I was never one to cry. I started on this shit called Sylfase. I seriously weeped like a baby randomly, someone could tell me something like "hold on" and I felt like the world hated me. Or what ever, I don't remember what I felt, I just remember crying for no reason for a few months until I changed to a different kind of pill. There are several kinds of medicines that have this known side effect. Brain chemistry is not something you should mess with if you don't have a clue. Btw, you clearly don't.

[Iconic Shawn]

So... you can't / don't take the pill cause it makes you depressed.
And as a alternative, you just don't take it, get pregnant, have the process of creating new life on this world started, and then kill it so you don't have to be responsible for your actions.

Shit.. I'd think the latter should make the chick more depressed than anything.

What ktallett said above made perfect sense and I can see why no one has tried to refute it.

If anything.. (rape and such aside) it should be BOTH peoples right to choose. Not just a woman's.

~S~

[ruthie]

And as a alternative, you just don't take it, get pregnant, have the process of creating new life on this world started, and then kill it so you don't have to be responsible for your actions

the guy wears a condom.  plus it has the added bonus of meaning no STDs are caught/transmitted.  why is this so hard for you to get your head round?

[Iconic Shawn]

Condoms are fine but because guys can't get pregnant, I don't think they have that innate fear in them that a chick should have before sex. I think with a dude its more about the STD's and even then a lot of guys will chance it in the heat of the moment.

Women are supposed to be the responsible mother types, or at least I thought.

Regardless.. how does the condom factor change that it shouldn't be simple a woman's right?

~S~

[nemo]

So... you can't / don't take the pill cause it makes you depressed.
And as a alternative, you just don't take it, get pregnant, have the process of creating new life on this world started, and then kill it so you don't have to be responsible for your actions.

Shit.. I'd think the latter should make the chick more depressed than anything.

What ktallett said above made perfect sense and I can see why no one has tried to refute it.

If anything.. (rape and such aside) it should be BOTH peoples right to choose. Not just a woman's.

~S~

Shaun, do you understand the concept of a condom?  That is, at this point, what this thread is about. 

You did know the pill also raises the chances of the woman getting certain types of cancer as well, yeah?  We're trying to discuss the fact that guys have a duty of care as well when it comes to safe sex.  They can't just leave it to the girl to go on the pill and say that's the end of it.  Besides, i don't think many girls take it while single just incase they meet some nice guy they'd like to fuck on a night out.

Also, you know, I assume that a woman can't just wake up one day and decide she's gonna get the pill and start taking it that day.  she kinda has to wait until the start of her next cycle before she can do that.

[2NaFish]

Women are supposed to be the responsible mother types, or at least I thought.

How are things in the 1950s?

[Iconic Shawn]

Fucking A dude. Seriously.
We can also see what the world has become with women wanting to be men and letting part of the foundation of things rot.

BUT, thats another subject and too debatable from both sides.

But!, I do love the 1950s.
Women were bread to be mothers (not fashion whores who spread their legs for drinks and attention daddy never gave them)..
Reality TV and celebrity gossip stood in those hair and beauty places..
Porn was pin up until you got to your wife..
Abortion and a lot of things which hurt the moral fabric of society were actually looked down upon! (Go figure!)

~S~

[ruthie]

Fucking A dude. Seriously.
We can also see what the world has become with women wanting to be men and letting part of the foundation of things rot.

BUT, thats another subject and too debatable from both sides.

But!, I do love the 1950s.
Women were bread to be mothers (not fashion whores who spread their legs for drinks and attention daddy never gave them)..
Reality TV and celebrity gossip stood in those hair and beauty places..
Porn was pin up until you got to your wife..
Abortion and a lot of things which hurt the moral fabric of society were actually looked down upon! (Go figure!)

~S~

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

love yr avatars dude!!

seriously.  i just wouldn't even know where to start with this one!

[ktallett]

Iconic is correct. We have become too self obssesed as a race and taken our worth above anything else. Its fine if humans wishes to do things to create our life more comfortable yet its not ok if we play about with nature and the world. We have no right to decide about the nature of when and if we want to keep our species going and have no right to stop evolution through similar things. And especially one sex of humans shouldnt have any more control than another.

Due to our superior intelligence in comparison with other living creatures we believe we deserve many more rights than truthfully we actually do simply we have grown to expct this over many millenia to expect this. And in many ways its fine that is the case yet sometimes like this situation it isnt. If you dont want the risk of children simply dont have sexual intercourse dont interfer if you happen to get pregnant thats life and the point of life.

[Rocket Queen]

So... you can't / don't take the pill cause it makes you depressed.
And as a alternative, you just don't take it, get pregnant, have the process of creating new life on this world started, and then kill it so you don't have to be responsible for your actions.

Shit.. I'd think the latter should make the chick more depressed than anything.

What ktallett said above made perfect sense and I can see why no one has tried to refute it.

If anything.. (rape and such aside) it should be BOTH peoples right to choose. Not just a woman's.

~S~

Well. Way to go on drawing life in black and white...

The pill/condoms were a big step for womens rights. They could finally be free, choose to have sex before they were ready to have children, and avoid being stuck with a baby alone when the man left them, cause God knows many has.

Personally I hope I'll never have to choose whether to have an abortion or not. I think that's a big decisions in about 97% of womens lives that will always be in the back of their minds. Or like you said, they can get depressed. Sadly sometimes having abortions are the only option and the possibility to have one is also a great step forward for humanity, especially for women. I obviously don't expect you to grasp any of this. By all means, continue to objectify and degrade women, we need people like you to point at when we tell our daughters which man not to go for...

Peace n luv

[2NaFish]

What ktallett said above made perfect sense and I can see why no one has tried to refute it.

The reason no one has tried to refute it is because everyone has put him on ignore as he waffles pish.

[Sean]

cha ching!

[aintitfun22]

kick em in the tummy



im obviously kidding but yeah

[Bonnie]

Allow me to share a personal story with you, mostly because I've seen a lot of talking about whether or not it is "murder" when a woman chooses to have an abortion...

First off... I don't believe abortions are murder, I believe much like any other medical procedure they have their means in our society... that being said, I do not condone this procedure being used as a means of "protection" if you are old enough to willingly lay down and make that baby you should be old enough to care for the life that you create. 

So now to my personal story... about 7 months after my son was born I became pregnant with my 3rd child... and yes I did say child... however shortly after seeing my OB/Gyn, I had to make the decision about whether or not I would carry this child... I'm not going to go into tragic and graphic details because in the end it's only me that knows for sure whether or not I made the right decision. 

My pregnancies with both my children that are with us were long, painful and ultimately tore me up pretty badly... I was hospitalized for 6 days following the birth of my daughter for complications and 3 days with my son who we almost lost when he finally made an appearance. A third pregnancy was not in the cards so to speak for me given how much damage was done with the prior 2.  You never know how hard it is to make a decision like this until you have to make it.... ultimately it came down to I could try and maintain the pregnancy or I could terminate. 

I chose what many would consider the "easy" road, but it's never as easy as people think it is, this is literally the suctioning of a life out of another life, I will get to that in a minute.  I spoke for days with my Mr about the pros and cons but we never touched on emotionally or mentally what this decision would entail for us... it would be another week before the appointment could be scheduled and 3 days more before the appointment.  Over those days I went back and forth back and forth, I spent every moment with my hand on my stomach and every moment I was alone in tears, this destroyed me and it still does almost 9 years later, but I could not live with the possible outcome if I attempted to bring this life into the world... that being... my children might not have their mom today.

The morning of the appointment comes... I go to the out patient clinic in the hospital, get checked in, get all the pre-surgical tests done... then they send in a councilor to ensure that I am making the right decision and try to talk me out of it.  Clearly they did not read the notes in my file... talking to them was worse than the actual procedure itself, it was basically an emotional beat down wrapped in phony concern. Anyway, I digress, they walk me into this little room... and I do mean little, if it were 10' x10' it was big... a nurse comes in and asks a bunch of questions and then says "OK we are going to give you this needle, it's full of stuff to make you not remember the procedure" I can't remember the name of the stuff but I do remember how quickly it knocked me out.  I was essentially awake long enough for the Dr to explain to me how the vacuum worked and what he would do with it.  15 minutes later with me waking up from the needle it was done... the physical part anyway. 

As they were wheeling me out to the recovery room the nurse looks at me and says... "Yeah we have whats left in that little baggy over there" I didn't know whether or not to go to pieces right there in the room or wait.  Unbelievably, I told her I wanted to see it, the look on her face was priceless, after arguing with me about the logic of my request the Dr. finally brought it over.  I mean what can you do when someone tells you that your now deceased baby is in a baggy in the room with you.  I looked, I wont tell you what it looked like, save to say that it is not as represented on TV shows or pro-life ads, where they show parts of baby or even the whole fetus in order to scare you into not doing it.  That's when I lost it.

It's been almost 9 years and it's still a decision I live with every day, I still wonder, I still yearn for that little one, I still lose it some days...

so to answer any question about should we the carriers of the child be allowed to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy... I will tell you from being there... YES we have the sole right to make that decision, even thought I didn't make it alone... why? it's our bodies, it's our minds and ultimately we have to live with the decision in the end.