playing / improvisiation using scales ?!

[CivilWar]

k... never cared too much about that, but how does using scales actually work?

is it when a ryhtm guitarist play like G... D... A... or something the soloist improvises using the G scale then the D scale and so on? i mean depending which chord the rythm guitarist plays the lead guitarist changes the scale he uses? it works that way, doesnt it?

could anyone tell me a site or tab where i could find all the scales i could possibly need for jamming around ?

[Kilamite]

Scales are notes which in sequence match a chord under the scale name.

Pick the scale of E for example. The E chord fits with every note in that scale, but since you are playing chord E (chord I) you can play chord (IV) which is A and then chord (V) which is B - if I'm wrong someone tell me!

Improvisation usually is set - either the lead guitarist or rhythm will say "ok, lets jam around the chords C,F,G" and the soloist will improvise around a scale that fits all 3 chords (fuck am I talking ballocks here?).

I mean, in the Em penatonic scale, you could just play an Em chord all the way thru the solo if the lead guitarist sticks to that pattern, but that isn't very interesting for you - and chord changes make the music more interesting and move it about more.


Search on Google for info..

[CivilWar]

Pick the scale of E for example. The E chord fits with every note in that scale, but since you are playing chord E (chord I) you can play chord (IV) which is A and then chord (V) which is B - if I'm wrong someone tell me!

I, IV, V ? :wtf:

Improvisation usually is set - either the lead guitarist or rhythm will say "ok, lets jam around the chords C,F,G" and the soloist will improvise around a scale that fits all 3 chords (fuck am I talking ballocks here?).

all 3 chords?! i thought the soloist just changes the scale too !?

[Kilamite]

Fuck I don't know!


Go search on google!

The soloist does change scale, but he needs to let the rhythm guitarist know otherwise there will be a clash between scale and chord and it will sound shite!

[CivilWar]

i thought the soloist plays from the C scale when rythm guitarist is playing a C chord, and if the rythm guitarist changes to a D or wathever the solist changes too?!

got no idea either...

[Kilamite]

Yeh something like that!

But the solo-ist doesn't know that the rhythm guitarist is gonna change unless he tells him! That's what i'm tryin to say!

[guitarpatch]

Here's a site that might help

www.musictheory.net

pull down the option that says Lessons, and you should find something in there that might be some help.

[CivilWar]

yeah, sure...

[bolt]

If you want to improvise/ write a song, what you in theory should do (although this is very often NOT the way it goes) is choose a scale - e.g. C major:

c, d, e, f, g, a, b


----c----d---e--f---g-----a--b---c----d---e---f-----g----a-----7---8-
-----------------------------------------------------8---10-----b---c
----------------------------------------7--9--10------------------
---------------------------7--9--10-------------------------------
--------------7--8--10--------------------------------------------
-----8--10---------------------------------------------------------


Chords can be made by taking specific notes from this scale and putting them together. You can then improvise over these chords using the scale.

The most common way to build chords from the scale is by taking a "root" note, then a "third", then a "fifth" - don't worry this is actually easier than it sounds.



ROOT
The "root" note is the main note/bass note, and is what the chord's name comes from. e.g. C major has a root note of C, D major has a root note of D, E minor has a root note of E, F deminished 19th-type crazy chord has a root note of F - it's as easy as that.



THIRDS and FIFTHS
The other notes that contribute to a chord are taken from the scale at specific intervals above the "root" . The most common intervals to add to the root are "thirds" and "fifths".

Keeping with the scale of C, you can choose either a,b,c,d,e,f, or g to be the root, as these are the notes in the scale. For example, lets choose C as the "root":


-----------------------------------------------------------------7--8-
-------------------------------------------------------8---10--------
-----------------------------------------c---7--9--10------------------
----------------e--------g-------7--9--10-------------------------------
------c--------(7)--8--(10)--------------------------------------------
-----(8)--10---------------------------------------------------------

c is the "root", e is the "third" (i.e. the third note up in the scale when starting from the root note), g is the "fifth" (i.e. fifth note in the scale when starting from the root).

You can put these notes together to form a chord:


-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
---5--g (repositioned from 10 on the fret below)--------
---7--e----------------------------------------
---8--c----------------------------------------

To "reinforce" the "root" note, another c can be added:


--------------------------
--------------------------
----5----c------------------
----5----g------------------
----7----e------------------
----8----c------------------
This is C major

You can get other chords by taking other notes from the scale as a root note, and then adding a third and fifth to it in the same way as above - e.g.

---------------------------------------------------------------------7--8-
-------------------------------------------------e----------8---10--------
-------------------------------------b-------7--(9)--10------------------
----------------e--------g-------7--(9)--10-------------------------------
--------------(7)--8--(10)--------------------------------------------
-----8--10---------------------------------------------------------

e is the root, g is the third, b is the fifth

--------------
--5--e----------
--4--b----------
--5--g----------
--7--e----------
--------------

this is E minor, just in a funny position - it is more often played like this:

----------------
----------------
-0---g---------
-2---e---------
-2---b---------
-0---e---------
.
You can also get D major in the same way, using D as the root.

E minor, D major and C major can be used to form a chord progression - e.g.


--------------------------
--------------------------
--12--------13-----9-----------
--14--------12-----10-----------
--14--------12-----10-----------
--12--------10-----8-----------
e minor, d major, c major

You can then use notes from the C major scale to solo over this chord progression (which incidentally is part of the madagascar chord progression.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You may see progressions quoted as something like "I, III, V" - this is just referring to the stage in the scale from which the root note was taken:



-----I---II--III-IV--V---VI--VII------
----------------------------------------
--------------------------a---b--------
-------------e---f---g----7--9--------
-----c---d---7--8--10----------------
-----8--10----------------------------


so, the chord which has C as the root note will be the "I" chord, and the chord with E as the root will be the "III" chord, and the chord with G as the root will be the "V" chord.

[CivilWar]

thanks alot dude, i'll try that...

[zepsun]

also keep in mind that when a song is in Cmajor(also called Am) for example, u can use all the notes in the scale over any chord progression that is derived from the scale...
So if the chords were C, Am, and G....u could use any combination of notes from the scale...or if the chords were F, G, Dm, Am, same thing..use the notes from the C major scale...
Look at each chord in the song and look at its notes..
for example...don't cry:

Am, Dm, G, C
F, G, Am
Em sometimes...

Am=A, C, E
Dm=D, F, A
G=G, B, D
C=C, E, G,

F=F, A, C
G=G, B, D
Am=A, C, E
Em=E, G, B

write out all these notes starting with the first chord letter of the song:
First chord in Don't cry is Am:
A B C D E F G A
no flats and no sharps...Its the Cmajor scale...
 
Just a side note:
You know that chord you hit, that makes it sound like you've hit home, like at the end of a song?...It's called the Tonic.
That TONIC chord usually indicates the scale...

Don't cry ends on Cmajor...Which is Am (relative) both scales use the same notes.

Knockin on Heavens door..ends in G (E minor)

Civil War starts in Em and ends in Em.

November Rain has two scales...Part one is in Am even though the first chord is F...u can hear that the song "hits home" when it plays a C chord at the end of each phrase. But Part 1 does end in Cmajor(Am)
Part2 sounds a little darker (notice that??)
It's in Cm(Eb major)...Starts in Cm and ends in Cm.

anyway...get that down...then worry about what scales coma and estranged are in..lol...both are mulitple scale songs...

Don't try to know this all at once...it comes naturally over time...

[CivilWar]

thanks zep... i'll try that...

[gan7676]

good luck cw, you'll need it.  I suck at improvising, I can't think that fast yet.

[bucketsixx]

Improvising is something im good at but i have no idea about any theory behind it...that stuff is HARD!! :o