Azoff's company files $1.8M suit against Axl

[MrSnake]

i'm just breaking balls and i know it is off topic.  i was just making fun of him because don king has been sued several times but not for being a manager of anyone

back on topic, i think this shows that fans really do see GNR as an axl solo project, since nobody has mentioned a single other player in the band

Part of Tyson's lawsuit against King was due to managerial fraud and named King and his companies as defendants, alleging they acted as one entity to enrich King at Tyson's expense. As a result, Don King doesn't manage fighters any more to avoid having a conflict of interests whilst being a fighter's promoter at the same time under the terms of the Muhammad Ali Act.  He now has his son Carl King manage fighters which is totally ok ethically and not morally dubious in the slightest though Ricardo Mayorga feels differently and is suing.

Nobody has mentioned the other guys in the band because they aren't personally being sued by Azoff.

[2NaFish]

I'm not sure where this rumor about an "oral" contract came from.

the BBC have it listed as an oral contract. I'd say they're a pretty safe bet.

[dman1991]

the BBC have it listed as an oral contract. I'd say they're a pretty safe bet.

I'm not sure where this "BBC" came from...

[madison]

...  Im sure Axl understands how to hire and fire a manager..

Yes, one would think so, given the revolving door of managers we've seen over the years.
But alas - in this case anyway, it doesn't appear that way since Doc wasn't even aware he had been hired when Axl announced it.

..  I believe Azoff probably managed GNR for a total of 35 minutes, because that is about how long it should have taken to do the work he did......

I find it amusing how fans rally behind a manager while he's managing the band, and then stick knives in his back as soon as Axl fires him.

Let's take a walk down memory lane:  Remember Dougie Goldstein?  Pretty stand-up guy, who promoted and defended the band for years, and helped the band members through countless rehab sessions, etc.  Anyway, Doug worked hard to get Axl out of "semi-retirement" around 2001 when he arranged a tour and sold a ton of tickets to shows. The tour was widely publicized, tickets were sold, fans booked airfares/hotels to go to shows - and then, Axl pulled the plug on the tour at the 11th hour, claiming it was all done without his consent or knowledge. **Guess all the huge promotions and publicity around the European tour didn't filter through Axl's house - Maybe  Dougie should have rented out one of the crop-dusters and dumped a bunch of flyers down over Axl's house to let hm know about the tour?  Not sure.  Ah- but I digress....

Anyway - next, we have Merck.  Here's a guy who was CEO of a large company, but still devoted a big chunk of his time to Axl and dedicated himself to Axl's fans. Anyone who attended multiple shows under Merck's watch would have seen Merck by Axl's side at after-parties and through the wee hours of the morning. Also, Merck was always there to correct false rumors and keep fans updated - he truly understood the digital age and the importance of the internet and fan forums.  He single-handedly got Axl out of his house and on tour - which was a major accomplishment back then. And when the label pulled the plug on funding the album, Merck came up with ways to raise cash to finish the recording sessions.  Yet - as soon as Axl dumped Merck, many fans turned on Merck, unfairly bashing him, despite everything he had done. Even Axl declined to acknowledge Merck in the credits on his album (although he seemed to get over his anger with Dougie, because Doug was mentioned).

And this brings us to Azoff, whose company took over management in March 2008.  He and Gould did the impossible - they got the album out!  And judging from all the errors in the CD booklet, the album came out before Axl wanted it out.  But Azoff did it - and all the fans applauded this great moment in GNR history. He even found a way for the label to recoup its costs through the Best Buy deal, even though Axl was unwilling to do the usual press circuit to promote the album. 

But now - after Axl has fired Azoff, fans like you claim he didn't accomplish anything.  It's quite stunning to read.

Anyway, my point is that I think people should give credit where credit is due - even for managers who are no longer on GNR's payroll. Sure, everyone has their faults - nobody's perfect - but pretending these managers didn't accomplish anything is unfair.

[dman1991]

Yes, one would think so, given the revolving door of managers we've seen over the years.
But alas - in this case anyway, it doesn't appear that way since Doc wasn't even aware he had been hired when Axl announced it.

I find it amusing how fans rally behind a manager while he's managing the band, and then stick knives in his back as soon as Axl fires him.

Let's take a walk down memory lane:  Remember Dougie Goldstein?  Pretty stand-up guy, who promoted and defended the band for years, and helped the band members through countless rehab sessions, etc.  Anyway, Doug worked hard to get Axl out of "semi-retirement" around 2001 when he arranged a tour and sold a ton of tickets to shows. The tour was widely publicized, tickets were sold, fans booked airfares/hotels to go to shows - and then, Axl pulled the plug on the tour at the 11th hour, claiming it was all done without his consent or knowledge. **Guess all the huge promotions and publicity around the European tour didn't filter through Axl's house - Maybe  Dougie should have rented out one of the crop-dusters and dumped a bunch of flyers down over Axl's house to let hm know about the tour?  Not sure.  Ah- but I digress....

Anyway - next, we have Merck.  Here's a guy who was CEO of a large company, but still devoted a big chunk of his time to Axl and dedicated himself to Axl's fans. Anyone who attended multiple shows under Merck's watch would have seen Merck by Axl's side at after-parties and through the wee hours of the morning. Also, Merck was always there to correct false rumors and keep fans updated - he truly understood the digital age and the importance of the internet and fan forums.  He single-handedly got Axl out of his house and on tour - which was a major accomplishment back then. And when the label pulled the plug on funding the album, Merck came up with ways to raise cash to finish the recording sessions.  Yet - as soon as Axl dumped Merck, many fans turned on Merck, unfairly bashing him, despite everything he had done. Even Axl declined to acknowledge Merck in the credits on his album (although he seemed to get over his anger with Dougie, because Doug was mentioned).

And this brings us to Azoff, whose company took over management in March 2008.  He and Gould did the impossible - they got the album out!  And judging from all the errors in the CD booklet, the album came out before Axl wanted it out.  But Azoff did it - and all the fans applauded this great moment in GNR history. He even found a way for the label to recoup its costs through the Best Buy deal, even though Axl was unwilling to do the usual press circuit to promote the album. 

But now - after Axl has fired Azoff, fans like you claim he didn't accomplish anything.  It's quite stunning to read.

Anyway, my point is that I think people should give credit where credit is due - even for managers who are no longer on GNR's payroll. Sure, everyone has their faults - nobody's perfect - but pretending these managers didn't accomplish anything is unfair.

If I said they accomplished nothing I take it back, I was just equaling your exaggeration about how much time Azoff put into the band, you say several years, I say 35 mins, its actually more like a few months up to a year and a half, but we have no way of knowing the exact numbers in between.

 I dont really like anyone in the music biz but the musicians and the fans, so for you to think I hailed Azoff, merck, or anyone besides the musicians as saviors to the band, you are sorely mistaken. Obviously they would be applauded when they first arrived, it shows an initiative to make progress, which in my head leads to more music. That does not mean I liked them or anything about them. Im not exactly turning on them if I never respected their field in the first place.

When its all said and done, they are nothing, just people trying to make a buck, and that is how Axl has always treated the leeches (managers) in the biz. Is it right? Probably not. Im sure goldstein was a standup guy, and Axl just cocked him off. If I had that much control over my music, I would probably do the same thing. I wanted CD as much as the next guy, but I would never applaud a Manager for releasing music before the artist wanted it out. Of course I was all for it, and it probably was the best move, but it is not up to me or anyone to make that call but the people responsible for writing the music.

Ok, I'll spell it out for you. Maybe Axl purposely said he hired Doc, knowing fullwell that he did not, to get a response out of Azoff. (Yes I know its a stretch, but it has as much merit as your conjecture)

"Merck was very informative and constantly updated the fans to dispel rumors". 2 words shitcan that theory - Thirteen tuesdays

Anyway, what does any of this nonsense have to do with this lawsuit? You question the oral agreement, yet we find a source, then you question the source, and 2na gives you the BBC. Are you using these slanted, erroneous stories to further your anti Axl agenda? There is plenty of people out there trying to embarrass him who are actually respected or at least acknowledged in the business, you have contributed to that with your bullshit T shirt story, is that not enough?

As far as managers and agents and all types of Music Biz phonies go, they are nothing without the music and the musicians who created it. If Azoff didnt do it, then Azoff B would have. If the band didnt write the music, there would be no music, get it? FUCK THE POWER

[madison]

I dont really like anyone in the music biz but the musicians and the fans, so for you to think I hailed Azoff, merck, or anyone besides the musicians as saviors to the band, you are sorely mistaken. Obviously they would be applauded when they first arrived, it shows an initiative to make progress, which in my head leads to more music. That does not mean I liked them or anything about them....

I'm guessing you're not too familiar with how the music business works?  Managers are necessary in the music business to keep tours, recording sessions, schedules and the business side on track so that the artist can make music and play shows.  Without them, the artist would have little time to create music - they'd have to spend all their time negotiating contracts with labels, promoters, studios, venues, roadies, etc.

Without GNR's past three managers, you likely wouldn't have seen Axl on stage or heard CD.  He'd likely still be sitting in his house, recording and re-recording tracks over and over again....  I just think fans should give credit where credit is due - instead of pointlessly bashing someone (who fans applauded two days earlier) just because Axl fired him.  *shrugs*

..Are you using these slanted, erroneous stories to further your anti Axl agenda? .

Clearly, you know nothing about me and my posts.  If you had, you would know that I have supported and defended Axl for the past eight years on mygnrforum - a forum, whose membership I built from scratch to over 36,000 - all because I'm a huge fan of the band and Axl's music. 

However, being a fan doesn't mean you have to blindly agree with everything an artist says or does.  When Axl does something great, I'm the first to say so, but when he messes up, I'm not afraid to speak out about that too. I also don't believe in censoring news articles just because Axl or Beta order it - not my style.

.. you have contributed to that with your bullshit T shirt story, is that not enough? ..

I absolutely stand by the T-shirt story. I am certain the security policy was in place for the Winnipeg show - I can't comment on what happened after that show, given the huge firestorm that erupted over the Net about it - but it was definitely there for the Winnipeg show. My sources were impeccable, and Axl knows it - That's why Axl had no interest in contacting the sources who told me about the policy - he was just angry that I exposed it.  *shrugs* .. Anyway, this is off-topic. If you wish to discuss this further, I would be happy to do so - but not in this thread.

Cheers. 

[dman1991]

Ugh, I dont think you reading my posts. You can quote me all you want, doesnt really matter when your replies have nothing to do with the quote says.

We have our opinions, and that is all they are. I do know your history, you were used at mygnr to stir up shit, and when shit hit the fan you got kicked to the curb. I have not re registered at mygnr because of the garbage content and constant trolling that is allowed there.

It seems you are here pleading your case right now, because there is minimal related content to our debate in your attempts at quoting me.

The T-shirt story is about all you actually responded to, and I respect that you stand by your guns. If you dont mind me asking, who were your sources? We can continue through PM if you prefer, because from what I gather, venue security issued their own unrelated warning about people doing something to disrupt the band, and it had to do with Slash.

[MrSnake]

It is odd how the memory can play tricks as I definitely remember plenty of people on this site and elsewhere bitching about Merck and the word "soon" being used to take the piss (or maybe that was only on Tuesdays). I also remember people griping about the Best Buy deal, the fucked up booklet, the lack of promotion when compared to Metalica or AC/DC's releases. Just who was the manager then?

As far as integrity goes, just why did Eddie Van Halen, Seal, Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins and the four members of the band Journey write letters to Congress favoring the TicketMaster/Live Nation merger? Surely nothing to do with the fact that they are all either managed or co-managed by one Irving Azoff, you know, the C.E.O. of TicketMaster? Oddly enough none of them mentioned this fact in their letters.

Where's the integrity of practically having a monopoly on concert promotion within the US and then managing bands at the same time? If a manager's job is to get the most money for the band from a promoter how can Irving Azoff act in the best interests of the band when he is the promoter? That's a conflict of interests to say the least. Then again, I've heard plenty about bands that are still owed royalties etc but never heard of a destitute manager.

[deadxsouth]

blah blah

Why are we giving this tool a venue to speak?

[2NaFish]

Why are we giving this tool a venue to speak?

Unless they do something to deserve a banning then anyone is welcome to post here. If you think they spout crap, then call them on it. I dont think you'll be the only one, but everyone gets a chance.

Unless they're wearing a slash t-shirt that is. Then we throw them out, but dont tell anyone....

[Fabiana]

Unless they're wearing a slash t-shirt that is. Then we throw them out, but dont tell anyone....

LOL at this one 2Na!! 

[madison]

Unless they're wearing a slash t-shirt that is. Then we throw them out, but dont tell anyone....

haha.  Nice to see you have a sense of humor 2Na.
**Quietly checks to see what shirt I have on****

[2NaFish]

im not always a confrontational prick. just usually.

[deadxsouth]

Unless they do something to deserve a banning then anyone is welcome to post here. If you think they spout crap, then call them on it. I dont think you'll be the only one, but everyone gets a chance.

Unless they're wearing a slash t-shirt that is. Then we throw them out, but dont tell anyone....

Fair enough.