Paul Stanley Says Doc Mcghee is Not GN'R Manager

[dman1991]

Well, that's no problem and I can really understand you. Here's the deal: I've been writing some articles in the past and one of my hobbies is making music and performing with my band. It's all kinda-hobby-like and nothing big. But can you imagine how often people (intentionally or not) misquote you, put words in your mouth and pull the most ridiculous bullshit out of their asses -- just to create the illusion of your words or opinions working effectively against you? Very often, that's the answer.

No if madison's just trolling 'round here -- ignore her. Choose your words wisely and if she writes some crap about something you've never said... well, people can look it up two pages back anyway. It's really true that ignorance is a penalty much more than antagonism.

Maybe there's some effect of learning y'know? If she sees that she's respected around here, as long as she contributes some material of discussion instead of slander. If someone realizes that he/she can shove his/her ego 'n lies up her/his ass -- I guess this should calm things down then

Agreed, and I have commented positively on a few of her subjects, but when she starts playing her games, (and you will see them) I have no sympathy for her or any bashing she encounters.

[DeceivedByVirtue]

It's unclear if Doc McGhee is GNR's new manager or not at this point.
As someone posted a week ago, Doc told Paul Stanley that no agreement had been signed for him to manage Axl.

Do you think Doc is the best manager for Axl at this point?  I thought I'd post an old interview where Doc offered up his views on Axl. Not sure if this was posted before - If it has, my apologies.

Check it out:

I had not seen this. Thanks for posting. I have seen Doc say some negative things in the past as well on various shows like this one seems to be from.

At first I was surprised at the partnership. But, people get older and mature and let by gones be by gones. I felt it could be a positive move.

At this point? Well, it looks like Axl just got played. Ole' Irv is running the ticket sales racket and Doc has a group of high quality acts - touring acts. Considering that the legal documents claim an "oral contract" with Irv, it would seem safe to assume it was also an oral contract with Doc. Notice he never confirmed when Axl acknowledge Doc as their new manager. I think as soon as Axl said Doc was his new manager there was a phone call made and that deal was dead in the water. Axl most likely was sacrificed for Doc's greater good.

But we don't know yet. What's really up remains to be seen (perhaps).

As it sits now, forget about any US tour unless Axl goes outlaw with one. To tour the US he'll have to become Billy the Kid w/ his posse. That could be cool though. Irv could be under-estimating our man. I can see the current GNR line up being up for an outlaw tour. They're all hard workin' guys with healthy senses of humor.

[dman1991]

I had not seen this. Thanks for posting. I have seen Doc say some negative things in the past as well on various shows like this one seems to be from.

At first I was surprised at the partnership. But, people get older and mature and let by gones be by gones. I felt it could be a positive move.

At this point? Well, it looks like Axl just got played. Ole' Irv is running the ticket sales racket and Doc has a group of high quality acts - touring acts. Considering that the legal documents claim an "oral contract" with Irv, it would seem safe to assume it was also an oral contract with Doc. Notice he never confirmed when Axl acknowledge Doc as their new manager. I think as soon as Axl said Doc was his new manager there was a phone call made and that deal was dead in the water. Axl most likely was sacrificed for Doc's greater good.

But we don't know yet. What's really up remains to be seen (perhaps).

As it sits now, forget about any US tour unless Axl goes outlaw with one. To tour the US he'll have to become Billy the Kid w/ his posse. That could be cool though. Irv could be under-estimating our man. I can see the current GNR line up being up for an outlaw tour. They're all hard workin' guys with healthy senses of humor.

I really dont understand where people are getting this notion that Axl will not tour the U.S. (at least through ticketmaster) because of his and Azoffs personal grievances. Do you not see a conflict of interest there?

If Guns can sell out some shows, ticketmaster will sell the tickets. If Azoffs gets in the way of making money for his shareholders because of an oral agreement he made as MANAGER of Guns n Roses, that will most likely not sit too well with anyone involved with Ticketmaster/Livenation.

[DeceivedByVirtue]

I really dont understand where people are getting this notion that Axl will not tour the U.S. (at least through ticketmaster) because of his and Azoffs personal grievances. Do you not see a conflict of interest there?

If Guns can sell out some shows, ticketmaster will sell the tickets. If Azoffs gets in the way of making money for his shareholders because of an oral agreement he made as MANAGER of Guns n Roses, that will most likely not sit too well with anyone involved with Ticketmaster/Livenation.

You see money over-ridding the Alpha thing. That seems reasonable, I understand. I don't agree however.

That lawsuit is chump change. It's about POWER. It one Alpha shaking his cock in another Alpha's face. It's Irv showing Axl who's the top dog.

All Irv has to do to settle any shareholder's bitching would be to remind them of Axl's track record, point out that he has no quality management, etc. Irv could easily sell them that Axl wouldn't be worth the risk.

This isn't about money. Irv has plenty, more than Axl ever will. It feels like a game to me. It looks like a game. Irv batting Axl around like a cat with a mouse.  Only in this case he just might be dealing with Mighty Mouse and Axl will get the last laugh. 

We will just have to kick back and see what's really up.

[dman1991]

^^ I can understand that pov, his history is a bit erratic to say the least, but would Azoff risk making millions off a tour to win a pissing contest (We all know Azoff is rich, but if he was not trying to become richer why would he still be working these high profile jobs?)

As you said, it is something we will have to wait and see. At the same time you could look at the last few tours, Axl's new attitude, and the rather full shows that are evident on any vid you see. Im sure his colleagues are smart enough to know when "Irv" is trying to prove a point or not. He is not a dictator, as I have stated before.

[DeceivedByVirtue]

^^ I can understand that pov, his history is a bit erratic to say the least, but would Azoff risk making millions off a tour to win a pissing contest (We all know Azoff is rich, but if he was not trying to become richer why would he still be working these high profile jobs?)

As you said, it is something we will have to wait and see. At the same time you could look at the last few tours, Axl's new attitude, and the rather full shows that are evident on any vid you see. Im sure his colleagues are smart enough to know when "Irv" is trying to prove a point or not. He is not a dictator, as I have stated before.

The only way I'd see ole Irv backing down is if Axl backs down and reunites with the original line up (well 2nd line up I mean), that's the only way he'd possibly make millions off a GNR tour. He wouldn't make millions from a GNR tour with the current line up and thus, yes, I do believe he will stay on course with attempting to take Axl down.

Remember that Axl dumped him, not the other way around. "F that spoiled little punk. No one dumps Irving Azoff! I OWN this F-ing business! I'll shut his ass up and shut his ass down!" That would be a typical Alpha reaction. Most Alphas suffer from serious pride issues. 

You keep reasonably thinking that Irv's colleagues would keep him in check, but we have our own stubborn Alpha to look at as an example. Are Axl's colleagues able to keep him in check when he is being what most would consider unreasonable? Also remember that many of Irv's colleagues and clients don't like Axl. There are plenty of people who'd give Irv a pat on the back for even trying to "teach Axl Rose a lesson". Paul Stanley is one we have seen so far. He seemed to take great pleasure in mocking our boy did he not? He isn't the only one enjoying this power play.

As I said, you clearly are thinking like a rational person would.    But we are not talking about your average men here. We are talking about two very strong & stubborn Alpha males each trying to show who is most macho. There is nothing rational or reasonable entering into the equation. It's simply a basic primal reaction. I don't see either of them backing down or caving in.

I'm puttin' my money on Axl. I think Irv screwed up. He should have let it go. You just aren't gonna out stubborn Axl Rose especially after you've pissed him off by screwing with his business and trying to humiliate him. Axl already indicated he felt the airport incident was a set up by Irv, then it's followed up by snaking his business manager and a lawsuit. Forget about it. Axl will never concede to being taken out like that. He'll fight and win just to prove his own point. He certainly ain't gonna just roll over and take it up the tush. 

[dman1991]

Well apparently Axl showed 12 million in earnings last year, is that profit or just what the band brought in sales wise? Either way, that is a nice chunk to take a piece of from for just a handful of shows.

Your comparisons make it sound like they are a bunch of chimpanzees throwing shit at each other. Where are you getting your info from? This is all speculation, like Azoffs colleagues hate Axl,  or Azoff snaked Doc Mcghee from Axl. When did Paul Stanley pat Azoff on the back? What he said had nothing to do with Irving Azoff.

Im pretty sure Azoff and Axl did not get to where they are today by being "alpha males" (really ease up on the nature channel), they each have an impressive body of work.

I never said they would tour or be able to make any money in the United States. I said if they could, and it was evident, Ticketmaster would be more than happy to sell the tickets, and Livenation would be more than happy to get the venues ( I know they are merged, but they still operate somewhat separately I believe). The only thing you may be right about here is that Axl could possibly say fuck it, but that is all speculative shite.

I would love to see Axl say fuck ticketmaster and somehow find a way to tour the U.S. while still ensuring everyone in the band the treatment they deserve and receive in the rest of the world, but that probably wouldnt happen if Freddy Mercury rose from the dead.

[DeceivedByVirtue]

Your comparisons make it sound like they are a bunch of chimpanzees throwing shit at each other. 

aawww ya got me... 
One of the best books ever for those who have to deal with Alphas who fall into the extreme category.

Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence

This is all speculation

of course it is. It is simply what I see when looking at what we have in front of us to see. It could all be completely off base. The question was "What do you think?" None of us know jack. It's called amusement. 

(really ease up on the nature channel)

you're close, it's NatGeo & Discovery Science Channel mostly though... 

I never said they would tour or be able to make any money in the United States. I said if they could, and it was evident, Ticketmaster would be more than happy to sell the tickets, and Livenation would be more than happy to get the venues ( I know they are merged, but they still operate somewhat separately I believe).

I'd agree if we were talking about the classic line up. Remember C.D. is still being touted as a failure in the US. The US is arrogant in general and most don't really care about what is going on elsewhere in the world. You know all that though. I guess you are feeling there would be a larger draw than I do. I'm looking realistically at what I'm thinking they could draw in the US. At this point in time.

The only thing you may be right about here is that Axl could possibly say fuck it, but that is all speculative shite.

I would love to see Axl say fuck ticketmaster and somehow find a way to tour the U.S. while still ensuring everyone in the band the treatment they deserve and receive in the rest of the world, but that probably wouldnt happen if Freddy Mercury rose from the dead.

I do see him saying fuck it. (I hope he does anyway.) If he's pissed off and feels under attack his fans get the Axl they love. American fans like him all fired up, and if he's getting kicked around by The Man that makes him more relateable for those who feel they are getting screwed by The Man themselves. America could use a pissed off Axl right now. He gets the last laugh and his fans are happy (well except for...) especially if they are hardcore Axl fans who have had to take lots of shit and harassment for standing by him.

like you said and I agree... it's all speculative shite.

[dman1991]

^^
Yes my want for them to succeed in the U.S.A. does actually jade the reality that a good portion of music fans in the U.S. think Axl is somewhat of a joke, and it sucks that what is actually out there is trash compared to what guns could put together. As long as we can agree that everything we are debating here is speculation then I am happy, lol.

I would love to see Axl take the route you described, but I think the reality is it would not work. I would for sure support it, but dammit I want to see guns, in any form, in those arenas again, for my own selfish interests. Hopefully the biz as we know it will completely crumble and allow more talented acts access to what these (basically) monopolistic companies control.

Thanks for actually answering and responding to what I said, I'm always up for a good debate, and its even better when you are quoting me in context.

Really though, is that how you think of men in general, lol? Not that it is completely untrue, I suppose I have my thoughts of all women being catty and irrational, so I can't really argue with ya.

EDIT: And I could not agree with you more about America needing a pissed off Axl. The thing is, they have always had it, only if there is someway to make them realize. Its a much better thought than people listening to a pissed off Bill O'reilly.

[DeceivedByVirtue]

^^
Yes my want for them to succeed in the U.S.A. does actually jade the reality that a good portion of music fans in the U.S. think Axl is somewhat of a joke, and it sucks that what is actually out there is trash compared to what guns could put together. As long as we can agree that everything we are debating here is speculation then I am happy, lol.

EXACTLY. I'd even say somewhat is an understatement. He's been demonized here in various ways. Yes, there is a segment that clearly likes/loves him. Many who think he's cool. But I don't have to tell you that unless someone specifically likes him - Eddie Trunk for example, he get's carved, and made fun of. VH1 always uses the worst pictures available obviously. They always make him come across crazy. TMZ even made fun of him for sweating too much. Come on now. The guy can't win for losing here as the old saying goes. I think that's a shame.

Plus his band. Come on. People roast and they have no clue. They blow so many other bands down. Aside from a couple gigs out of all of the ones so far that had what logically seems like moisture problems (and that chaotic situation in general) no one has said they suck. Those of us on forums even saw quite a few converted Slash fans (many more at least giving due where it's deserved.) everyone felt they had a great show - even those who did have some sound problems for part of the show.

They have so much talent. They create & provide quality - you get what you pay for. And, they are working damned hard under crazy conditions. They deserve more respect than they get generally here.

To stay on topic. I think Doc was a fool for backing out. Axl has made every show - late yes, but he has always been late. He has clearly matured - gotten off his duff and back to work. I think also that this current line up could write some great songs. Bumble & The kid both hustle, they are productive.  He had a golden opportunity.

I would love to see Axl take the route you described, but I think the reality is it would not work. I would for sure support it, but dammit I want to see guns, in any form, in those arenas again, for my own selfish interests. Hopefully the biz as we know it will completely crumble and allow more talented acts access to what these (basically) monopolistic companies control.

Why do you think it wouldn't work? Yes, it would be challenging on certain levels, but certainly not impossible. Axl's like Wile E. Coyote he can come up with something. He has some around him who would be up for the challenge. Del is totally capable. They made it out of So America alive by the skin of their teeth at times it seems.  You don't think he could handle an outlaw tour? You know Baz would be up for it. And as you pointed out there are a lot of talented acts out there doing things on their own now.

The wall is already crumbling. It needs someone like Axl with GNR to give it a good swift kick. there is no reason he couldn't do things himself. Not in this age. He's catching on. Tweeting for example (breaking the rules & turning it into a blog of course  ). He's slow, but I see him evolving and getting it. He's savvy and this group of guys around him now are good influences. They are already doing things themselves.

Axl could turn the whole thing around on these guys & those who dislike him for their various reasons. America needs voices - they/we need symbolic heroes. We're getting squeezed and strangled by looters. We need a rebel - an underdog. If they keep mocking him and nickle & dimeing him to death, and preventing him from getting to play... Dude there it is. People need someone to scream Fuck You! for them. Axl does that. He does have to step up and do it though. He'd have to commit to it heart & soul and just do it.  He'd have to be confident he could pull it off. With S.A. under their belts the confidence should be there.

I just feel they could burn it down. I keep hearing

Rage Against The Machine - Guerrilla Radio

 

I'm probably day dreaming too big I realize. But a girl can dream. I like watching Alphas play mas macho. It's cute. In this case I reap some benefits (how did you word it? ) for my own selfish interests   

Thanks for actually answering and responding to what I said, I'm always up for a good debate, and its even better when you are quoting me in context.

Thanks too. It's been a nice break from work.
How else would I?

Really though, is that how you think of men in general, lol? Not that it is completely untrue, I suppose I have my thoughts of all women being catty and irrational, so I can't really argue with ya.

No, not all men. This is just an extreme case and it is what it is. It has been my particular lot in life to soothe savage beasties so to speak. I've been dealing with extreme alpha personalities my whole life.  I have vast amounts of experience. This is just a classic example of Alpha posturing. It's totally natural & normal.

Don't misunderstand. I call it like I see it, but I love Alphas. I just feel they need a little discipline now and again. 

EDIT: And I could not agree with you more about America needing a pissed off Axl. The thing is, they have always had it, only if there is someway to make them realize. Its a much better thought than people listening to a pissed off Bill O'reilly.

Yes, they have, a somewhat misdirected pissed off Axl. and it worked - we had a voice. But the cycle turned and it's taken time to come back around.

and, the times are different... he needs to be directed. People need some inspiration, they need a night to forget their problems and start fired up and ready to go after - the next day. People need music for fuel. GNR is good fuel.

We will have to respectful disagree about Bill O'. I love when he gets pissed off. He's a great debater. And, he's true to himself I respect that.

How can ya like Axl & not Bill O'?  Guess i must just have an alpha fetish - I tend to like em all or at least find them amusing. 

[madison]

I really dont understand where people are getting this notion that Axl will not tour the U.S. (at least through ticketmaster) because of his and Azoffs personal grievances. Do you not see a conflict of interest there?

If Guns can sell out some shows, ticketmaster will sell the tickets. If Azoffs gets in the way of making money for his shareholders because of an oral agreement he made as MANAGER of Guns n Roses, that will most likely not sit too well with anyone involved with Ticketmaster/Livenation.

But why would Azoff want to provide a service (whether it's selling tickets, booking a tour or promoting a tour) with someone he believes didn't pay him for past services?  Clearly, Azoff believes Axl owes him money or he wouldn't have launched a suit.  And it just wouldn't make smart business sense to continue providing services to an artist that you had to sue to get paid for past services.

As for those who think Ticketmaster and Live Nation are separate - sorry, but you're mistaken. The two entities merged and Azoff is now executive chairman of the combined company,  which means he oversees all of the companies under the Live Nation Entertainment umbrella.  The former Live Nation CEO, Michael Rapino, is CEO of the combined entity.  Clearly, this is the most powerful conglomerate in the music industry. So,  I could understand why Doc McGhee or any other manager might be reluctant to butt heads with Azoff, especially if they represent other artists.

As for those claiming Axl should do a rebel tour - well, Eddie Vedder tried to fight Ticketmaster years ago by attempting to book a tour without Ticketmaster, and his career took a huge hit that took him years to recover from. And Pearl Jam was huge at the time - it wasn't as if his band wasn't popular and couldn't sell tickets.
.... Fast forward to the Ticketmaster/Live Nation merger - when a reporter contacted Eddie to comment on the merger (before it received anti-trust approval), Eddie declined to comment. He didn't want to take the chance of offending anyone, knowing that the combined entity was going to be extremely powerful.

[dman1991]

How could anyone sue for tickets that have already been sold?

[dman1991]

EXACTLY. I'd even say somewhat is an understatement. He's been demonized here in various ways. Yes, there is a segment that clearly likes/loves him. Many who think he's cool. But I don't have to tell you that unless someone specifically likes him - Eddie Trunk for example, he get's carved, and made fun of. VH1 always uses the worst pictures available obviously. They always make him come across crazy. TMZ even made fun of him for sweating too much. Come on now. The guy can't win for losing here as the old saying goes. I think that's a shame.

Plus his band. Come on. People roast and they have no clue. They blow so many other bands down. Aside from a couple gigs out of all of the ones so far that had what logically seems like moisture problems (and that chaotic situation in general) no one has said they suck. Those of us on forums even saw quite a few converted Slash fans (many more at least giving due where it's deserved.) everyone felt they had a great show - even those who did have some sound problems for part of the show.

They have so much talent. They create & provide quality - you get what you pay for. And, they are working damned hard under crazy conditions. They deserve more respect than they get generally here.

To stay on topic. I think Doc was a fool for backing out. Axl has made every show - late yes, but he has always been late. He has clearly matured - gotten off his duff and back to work. I think also that this current line up could write some great songs. Bumble & The kid both hustle, they are productive.  He had a golden opportunity.

Why do you think it wouldn't work? Yes, it would be challenging on certain levels, but certainly not impossible. Axl's like Wile E. Coyote he can come up with something. He has some around him who would be up for the challenge. Del is totally capable. They made it out of So America alive by the skin of their teeth at times it seems.  You don't think he could handle an outlaw tour? You know Baz would be up for it. And as you pointed out there are a lot of talented acts out there doing things on their own now.

The wall is already crumbling. It needs someone like Axl with GNR to give it a good swift kick. there is no reason he couldn't do things himself. Not in this age. He's catching on. Tweeting for example (breaking the rules & turning it into a blog of course  ). He's slow, but I see him evolving and getting it. He's savvy and this group of guys around him now are good influences. They are already doing things themselves.

Axl could turn the whole thing around on these guys & those who dislike him for their various reasons. America needs voices - they/we need symbolic heroes. We're getting squeezed and strangled by looters. We need a rebel - an underdog. If they keep mocking him and nickle & dimeing him to death, and preventing him from getting to play... Dude there it is. People need someone to scream Fuck You! for them. Axl does that. He does have to step up and do it though. He'd have to commit to it heart & soul and just do it.  He'd have to be confident he could pull it off. With S.A. under their belts the confidence should be there.

I just feel they could burn it down. I keep hearing Rage Against The Machine - Guerrilla Radio 

I'm probably day dreaming too big I realize. But a girl can dream. I like watching Alphas play mas macho. It's cute. In this case I reap some benefits (how did you word it? ) for my own selfish interests   


Thanks too. It's been a nice break from work.
How else would I?

No, not all men. This is just an extreme case and it is what it is. It has been my particular lot in life to soothe savage beasties so to speak. I've been dealing with extreme alpha personalities my whole life.  I have vast amounts of experience. This is just a classic example of Alpha posturing. It's totally natural & normal.

Don't misunderstand. I call it like I see it, but I love Alphas. I just feel they need a little discipline now and again. 


Yes, they have, a somewhat misdirected pissed off Axl. and it worked - we had a voice. But the cycle turned and it's taken time to come back around.

and, the times are different... he needs to be directed. People need some inspiration, they need a night to forget their problems and start fired up and ready to go after - the next day. People need music for fuel. GNR is good fuel.

We will have to respectful disagree about Bill O'. I love when he gets pissed off. He's a great debater. And, he's true to himself I respect that.

How can ya like Axl & not Bill O'?  Guess i must just have an alpha fetish - I tend to like em all or at least find them amusing. 

At least someone is still into the cool guys!

[Sean]

Sorry but if you think this disagreement will have any affect on Guns using Ticketmaster.....      there is no correlation whatsoever