new arizona immigration legislation

[aintitfun22]

whats your opinions on it? im completely against it, its a stupid way to allow police to arrest people based upon sterotypes. its just wrong.

recent update: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-arizona-immigration-20100501,0,2712336.story?track=rss
I think this improves the law, but whether police will follow this or not is questionable.

[nemo]

When I first heard about this law, I have to admit my first thought was 'who the fuck would've want to go to Arizona anyway?'  Extensive sprinkler systems aren't that interesting after all.

Ciudad Juarez must have really gone down hill recently...

[aintitfun22]

^ phoenix isn't too bad of a city haha. Can't say the same for the rest of the state though, it's too hot down there for my liking.


edit: my post was so gramatically incorrect that I had to fix it. it was a matter of personal sanity.

[2NaFish]

read about this today, but it was in the observor so probably horribly biased. i can understand the rationale behind 'racial profiling' even if it isnt for me, but this law seems pretty disgraceful.

[Rocket Queen]

heard about this on the radio at work... sounded pretty racist and like a waste of resources.

[nemo]

I've got a Texan friend who used to live out here (he makes me feel good about the diversity of my friends: 'and this is my right-wing, gun-nut buddy...') and he seems to think this is the best policy since someone decided to focus
R&D budgets on ways of slicing bread.  His approval is usually the best way for me to tell that it's a horrible idea.

A policy that says if you look Hispanic the police can stop you at any time because they quite fancy deporting you has to be considered at least kinda racist though.

[aintitfun22]

its a dumb law. i can understand controlling illegal immigration, but in order to do so they need to a: better control the border so people cant run across it b: make becoming a citizen far cheaper and easier(a poor mexican immigrant cant pay for immigration)

[Iconic Shawn]

Its a LAW!

I don't understand how anyone can say anything about it at all.

They're illegal. They have no right to be here. Finally 1 state is doing something about it and what does everyone play? The race card of course.

"Now cops can harass hispanics" or whatever bullshit. If they're illegal they deserve nothing more than to be kicked out, and if they're legal, they should have no problem showing off their card or papers if needed and going about their business knowing their city or town is getting cleaned up of shit.

If any cop wanted to check my papers here in nYc I'd GLADLY let him. I'd feel better knowing that at least something is being done.

Again.. I don't understand where the debate is. They're here illegally, we're taking steps to correct this and get them out of here.

And so what if its mexicans. They're the problem. They're the ones who jump the fence. Should we question the Chinese people first?

It just doesn't make sense how people can cry about this shit. "Its not fair" well fuck the word "fair". Whats "fair" is the law.

~S~

[aintitfun22]

^ i agree with you on some stuff dude, but not this. no need to have this law. control the borders, make legal immigration easier, cheaper, and quicker, and life is good.

[polar]

it's a tough issue, i've personally dealt with it on all levels.  i've hired both legal and illegal subs to work jobs and depending on the work,  they've saved the margin on a few occasions for sure.  however, i had a property manager rent one of my houses to illegals by mistake, they got behind on rent, and let me tell you it was a royal bitch to evict them.  i could name a hundred reasons why illegals are good and a hundred more why they are the worst thing to happen to the US, but that is irrelevant

the way you handle the problem is:
1. you cut off all welfare and entitlements to them. 
2. you eliminate all sanctuary city policy, once we have them, send them back, and don't incarcerate them locally. 
3. you penalize any employer who pays them.

that's really all you can do, we'll never control the border.  i understand the support for the show me your papers law, but i think the reason not to go that route is stronger

[dman1991]

it's a tough issue, i've personally dealt with it on all levels.  i've hired both legal and illegal subs to work jobs and depending on the work,  they've saved the margin on a few occasions for sure.  however, i had a property manager rent one of my houses to illegals by mistake, they got behind on rent, and let me tell you it was a royal bitch to evict them.  i could name a hundred reasons why illegals are good and a hundred more why they are the worst thing to happen to the US, but that is irrelevant

the way you handle the problem is:
1. you cut off all welfare and entitlements to them. 
2. you eliminate all sanctuary city policy, once we have them, send them back, and don't incarcerate them locally. 
3. you penalize any employer who pays them.

that's really all you can do, we'll never control the border.  i understand the support for the show me your papers law, but i think the reason not to go that route is stronger

Those are some good points. There is obviously work for them out there, and from my experience working with them they can be very industrious and hard working. Then again like all people they can be lazy and take advantage of anything and everything possible (ya I know like my unemployment, haha).

The incarceration idea is where it gets tricky. Say you have a fast way to expedite illegals back, to them it becomes a slap on the wrist and the next thing you know they are back in the country with a new identity. I know here in PA it took one of the Hispanics I used to work with about 2 to 3 months being furloughed through the jail system to finally get deported, and he was actually back in the State at the same job with a completely obvious fake ID in about a month. Still im sure the cost of shipping a human 2500 miles through numerous systems over the course of 2 months is not cheap, so there has to be a happy medium.

Maybe it is time to give in and make it easier for Mexicans to immigrate. Instead of them piling there wads and taking it back to Mexico they can be forced to pay a reasonable share into immigration programs?

I think Arizona did this law for a reason. Knowing how wrong it actually is, it might have been just the thing to get the message across that they need help with the border down there. I know they have not seen to much fed help in the past.

I know lets free all the marijuana offenders from the court system and use the new space for immigration!

[polar]

well, it's not like the illegals want to become citizens.  some do, most don't.  they want to come up here, make as much cash as they can for a few years, then retire and move back.  if some of them actually want to become legal and start paying taxes (lol they aren't dumb, why would they) then i'd say sure, legalize them as fast as possible

as to the problems you mentioned, penalizing the employer would help that problem.

as for the jail/prison thing, it costs A LOT of money to pay for an inmate, and that's not an "industry" that the states need.  so instead of jailing someone, ship em back.  and yes, i agree that if we legalized weed and all drugs we'd stop all the violence on the border, and clear up a lot of ppl we have behind bars.  america really needs to be in the business of closing prisons and jails and stop hemorrhaging money fighting a bullshit war on drugs

[2NaFish]

as for the jail/prison thing, it costs A LOT of money to pay for an inmate, and that's not an "industry" that the states need.

you say that, but one sixth of the world's inmates are in american prisons, it IS a vital industry. these guys are all basically slaves and produce a monumental amount of goods that allows america to compete with the likes of mexico and china - i cant be bothered looking up the stats but something like 60% of toasters in america are made in prisons. But it most certainly is an industry that america needs.

Anyway, you're right overall. Its not worth it jailing them and the war on drugs continues to be an utter waste of money.

[Rocket Queen]

you say that, but one sixth of the world's inmates are in american prisons, it IS a vital industry. these guys are all basically slaves and produce a monumental amount of goods that allows america to compete with the likes of mexico and china - i cant be bothered looking up the stats but something like 60% of toasters in america are made in prisons. But it most certainly is an industry that america needs.

Anyway, you're right overall. Its not worth it jailing them and the war on drugs continues to be an utter waste of money.

and a complete fucking failure, I might humbly add.

How about a war on poverty. That might actually solve some issues, like, I don't know, it might cut down on the huge amount of people on tha crack...cuz like poor communities have the most drug dealers/users?