new arizona immigration legislation

[polar]

for those of you who are lacking in the intelligence department: No, being brown is not probable cause for a person to be searched and/or seized. I'm totally flabbergasted as to how this law is even allowed to exist? A sad day for america and a huge step in a bad direction. Now they can use this as precedent to justify infringing on even more of our rights.

you think cops are just walking up to random "brown people" and asking for their papers?

[dman1991]

just one question... If they are not a citizen of this country, and cannot be allowed to stay here to work then how on earth can anyone justify incarcerating them in this country? Do you like spending your hard earned money to essentially pay for room and board for illegal immigrants, rather than send them back to their counrty of origin? just so our governmant can use overpopulation of the prison system as an excuse to take even more money from out of our pockets? As much as it hurts me to say it our government is so cprrupt and money/power hungry it turns my stomach.

I was saying we should find a way around incarceration. I even acknowledged the cost and stupidity of the current system in place for exporting illegals out of the country. The question is how do you identify them and keep them from coming back all while quickly and cheaply removing them? Should we have an immigration bullet train?

The justification for the incarceration is that they are in the U.S. illegally which in itself is breaking U.S. law. Do you know what happens to anyone who breaks the law in another country, whether they are there legally or not? They face the country's legal system, which can be long and costly.

If you read my post all the way through, you would see I mentioned how they get deported and pop right back up with a new identity, so whats the point of deporting them quickly and cheaply if they will just be right back doing the same thing in 2 weeks?

[SLCPUNK]

The problem is we send them a mixed message: No no no at the border, but if you make it across you can get a job, a place to live and a vehicle. If we truly want to end this problem then we go after those who employee the illegals. That's the only way we're going to deal with this (very) complex issue.

[polar]

this thread kinda turned into a bitch fest about illegals from mexico coming to the US, but nobody has really touched on the topic

this is actually great legislation, and common sense.  a cop is questioning someone for a crime they already committed, whether it's a traffic issue or worse, they can't provide credible identification, so he follows it through to the logical conclusion.  nobody is having their rights violated, yet everyone from obama to eric holder to janet napolitano are making these retarded comments scaring the shit out of people over nothing, based on nothing

[dman1991]

I think Arizona did this law for a reason. Knowing how wrong it actually is, it might have been just the thing to get the message across that they need help with the border down there. I know they have not seen to much fed help in the past.

I know lets free all the marijuana offenders from the court system and use the new space for immigration!

As stupid and racist as this law may seem to people, it actually got a response from congress. So funny that the only way to get their attention is to flagrantly violate constitutional rights, but hey, someone knew what they were doin.


 By ERICA WERNER and JACQUES BILLEAUD, Associated Press Writers Erica Werner And Jacques Billeaud, Associated Press Writers   – Tue May 25, 8:51 pm ET

WASHINGTON – Under pressure to take action, President Barack Obama on Tuesday ordered 1,200 National Guard troops to boost security along the U.S.-Mexico border, pre-empting Republican efforts to force a congressional vote to send the troops.

Obama will also request $500 million for border protection and law enforcement activities, according to lawmakers and administration officials.

The president's action comes as chances for comprehensive immigration reform, Obama's long-stated goal, look increasingly dim in this election year. Obama has been all but compelled to do something since Arizona's passage of a tough illegal-immigration law thrust the border problem into the public spotlight.

Indeed, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer credited her signing of the controversial new law for compelling Obama to act. Signing the law, Brewer said in a statement, "clearly ignited the talk of action in Washington for the people of Arizona and other border states."

The National Guard troops will work on intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance support, analysis and training, and support efforts to block drug trafficking. They will temporarily supplement Border Patrol agents until Customs and Border Protection can recruit and train additional officers and agents to serve on the border, according to a letter Tuesday from top administration security officials to Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich.

In 2006, President George W. Bush sent thousands of troops to the border to perform support duties that tie up immigration agents. But that program has since ended, and politicians in border states have called for troops to be sent to curb human and drug smuggling and to deal with Mexico's drug violence that has been spilling over into the United States.

The White House released the letter signed by national security adviser James Jones and White House counterterror chief John Brennan not long after Obama met at the Capitol with Republican senators who pressed him on immigration issues, including the question of sending troops to the border.

Arizona Sens. John McCain and Jon Kyl have been urging such a move, and Republicans planned to try to require it as an amendment to a pending war spending bill.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100526/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_national_guard_border_10

[yet.another.raisin]

Its a LAW!

I don't understand how anyone can say anything about it at all.

They're illegal. They have no right to be here. Finally 1 state is doing something about it and what does everyone play? The race card of course.

[...]

It just doesn't make sense how people can cry about this shit. "Its not fair" well fuck the word "fair". Whats "fair" is the law.

~S~

Yeah... if only the natives had made a law or two when they saw the Mayflower on the horizon, all of this silliness could have been avoided.

[polar]

Yeah... if only the natives had made a law or two when they saw the Mayflower on the horizon, all of this silliness could have been avoided.

you realize you just argued in favor of illegal immigration legislation

[yet.another.raisin]

you realize you just argued in favor of illegal immigration legislation

I'm all for it, as long as it's retro-active. About 400 years.

[polar]

I'm all for it, as long as it's retro-active. About 400 years.

ex post facto law

[yet.another.raisin]

ex post facto law

They ignore everything else of substance in the constitution, it would just be one more hand-wave.

[polar]

They ignore everything else of substance in the constitution, it would just be one more hand-wave.

true on many issues, but not the arizona immigration bill we are discussing

[yet.another.raisin]

true on many issues, but not the arizona immigration bill we are discussing

Immigration should be a federal issue, not a state-level issue. It should not be the prerogative of the Arizona legislature to create or enforce immigration policy. Ergo, it's a foul ball no matter what the content. If the Democrats could possibly think about getting around to doing something about something (instead of cowering in fear of Neo-Con pundits and public opinion) perhaps this bill wouldn't exist.

[polar]

Immigration should be a federal issue, not a state-level issue. It should not be the prerogative of the Arizona legislature to create or enforce immigration policy. Ergo, it's a foul ball no matter what the content. If the Democrats could possibly think about getting around to doing something about something (instead of cowering in fear of Neo-Con pundits and public opinion) perhaps this bill wouldn't exist.

you're correct in that it's an enforcement bill of a federal law. 

and yes, the police should have the right to question someone's legal status if they've already broken another law and can't provide ID.  do you disagree?

[yet.another.raisin]

and yes, the police should have the right to question someone's legal status if they've already broken another law and can't provide ID.  do you disagree?

I wouldn't agree that failure to provide ID on-the-spot is evidence of the commission of an unrelated crime. Failure to provide at all, given a reasonable amount of time to do so, seems reasonable but impossible to enforce. Seems to me that this bill is a PR move rather than a legitimate attempt to solve a problem. If that's the case then it's a criminal waste of resources.  So it's either a ridiculous breach of civil rights, an impossible catch-22, or a disgusting base-rallying move to parlay racial tension into political support. I'm finding it difficult to endorse.