Axl Rose- Guns N' Roses Was Sabotaged Countersues Azoff! NEW SLASH COMMENT

[Ali]

lawyers don't have to take cases, doctors don't have to treat patients, and managers don't have to obey artists.  what you are talking about is outside fiduciary expectations

which is why is quit, which makes my point

First off, yes, managers do have to listen to the clients as the clients are the ones who are paying them.  Either respect your client's wishes or don't become their manager to begin with.  As Gunsguy said, Azoff was hired to manage the current lineup of GN'R, not reunite the old band.  By the doing the latter instead of the former, he did not perform the job he was hired to do.  And if his agenda all along was a reunion, he should not have agreed to manage GN'R to begin with because he knew he wasn't going to able to do the job for which he was hired.

Ali

[Ali]

An interesting tidbit about Irving Azoff and how he conducts himself in his business dealings (thanks CB from HTGH):

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/business/25ticket.html?pagewanted=2&ref=business

Mr. Azoff is also known for bending the truth when it suits his purposes or those of his clients, a propensity that long ago earned him the nickname Swerving Irving. He has been surprisingly honest about his penchant for dissembling — even saying so under oath, in a deposition in a lawsuit over the band Boston. After calling two music executives liars, he said, “Come to think of it, you can’t believe much of what I say, either.”

“That’s Irving,” says Don Engel, a lawyer who has worked both for and against Mr. Azoff. “His game is, ‘I say whatever I want, and if I change my mind, that’s the new truth.’ ”

Ali

[polar]

First off, yes, managers do have to listen to the clients as the clients are the ones who are paying them.  Either respect your client's wishes or don't become their manager to begin with.  As Gunsguy said, Azoff was hired to manage the current lineup of GN'R, not reunite the old band.  By the doing the latter instead of the former, he did not perform the job he was hired to do.  And if his agenda all along was a reunion, he should not have agreed to manage GN'R to begin with because he knew he wasn't going to able to do the job for which he was hired.

Ali

i already explained it, you either get it or you don't.  also you have no clue what azoff was hired to do,  he obviously was hired by bill bailey, not gnr

[Gunsguy]

Well he was not hired for a reunion that much is clear...

[Ali]

i already explained it, you either get it or you don't.  also you have no clue what azoff was hired to do,  he obviously was hired by bill bailey, not gnr

I think you are the one who doesn't get the dynamics of the manager-client relationship.  But, whatever.  It's pretty clear what Azoff was hired to do - manage Guns N' Roses as it is now.  There was never any indication he was hired to do anything else and to claim otherwise is a grasping-at-straws argument.  Today's lawsuit is ample evidence that Axl hired Azoff to do anything but orchestrate a reunion.  And he was hired by Axl Rose to manage GN'R.  Axl Rose was acting for GN'R when he hired him. 

Ali

[dman1991]

i already explained it, you either get it or you don't.  also you have no clue what azoff was hired to do,  he obviously was hired by bill bailey, not gnr

Im not sure I get it either, that seems extremely contradictory. So you hire people to tell you what to do? Do managers hire their bosses? I think your hierarchy is off. This type of hiring is private and we do not know what Azoff told Axl he was doing or what he planned on doing all along. What we do know is that Axl Rose hired Irving Azoff and Andy Gould, for whatever reason, who knows, but I do not think Axl would hire a manager in order to do something he could in a phone call to Slash.

Azoff would have to be an idiot to actually think Axl  would pay him to do something he could do himself.

[Ali]

Im not sure I get it either, that seems extremely contradictory. So you hire people to tell you what to do? Do managers hire their bosses? I think your hierarchy is off. This type of hiring is private and we do not know what Azoff told Axl he was doing or what he planned on doing all along. What we do know is that Axl Rose hired Irving Azoff and Andy Gould, for whatever reason, who knows, but I do not think Axl would hire a manager in order to do something he could in a phone call to Slash.

Azoff would have to be an idiot to actually think Axl  would pay him to do something he could do himself.

Thanks dman.  This is exactly my point.  You don't hire someone to tell you what to do, to decide things for you.  The hierarchy polar is operating under is wrong.

Ali

[madison]

Here's the latest article from the NY Times - It includes a one-line comment from Azoff.

Axl Rose Sues His Former Manager for $5 Million
By BEN SISARIO
18 May 2010
NYT Blogs

Perhaps no day in the life of Guns N' Roses is complete without news of both a new "vook" and a mud-slinging lawsuit.

Axl Rose has filed a $5 million lawsuit against his former manager, Irving Azoff, saying that he sabotaged sales of Guns N' Roses' comeback album and lied about a potential "super tour" with Van Halen (which Mr. Azoff manages) as part of a plan to force Mr. Rose to reunite with his estranged former band members.

Mr. Rose, the lead singer and only remaining original member of Guns N' Roses, says in his suit that Mr. Azoff failed to promote his 2008 album, "Chinese Democracy," and deliberately mishandled concert dates, "forcing Rose into a position where he would have no choice but to reunite with the original members of Guns N' Roses for a reunion tour."

It is a response to another lawsuit filed in March by Mr. Azoff -- who in addition to being a leading artist manager is also the executive chairman of Live Nation Entertainment -- which said that Mr. Rose owed him $1.9 million in unpaid management fees. Mr. Azoff became Mr. Rose's manager in early 2008, and "Chinese Democracy" was released in November through an exclusive retail deal with Best Buy.

The suit -- which was first reported by The Hollywood Reporter and TMZ, within minutes of each other -- was filed in Los Angeles Superior Court on Monday.

Mr. Rose also accuses Mr. Azoff of name-calling. "Out of spite and vindictiveness to cause Rose emotional distress and harm," his suit says, the lawsuit Mr. Azoff filed in March uses Mr. Rose's adopted name, William Bailey, instead of his legal name, W. Axl Rose. "Azoff knew that the name William Bailey carries significant emotional damage."

When asked to comment on Mr. Rose's suit, Mr. Azoff said in a statement on Tuesday: "On advice of counsel I cannot respond at this time, but will discuss in my upcoming book, 'My Life With William Bill Bailey.'"


http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/axl-rose-sues-his-former-manager-for-5-million/?scp=1&sq=axl%20rose&st=cse

[dman1991]

Thanks dman.  This is exactly my point.  You don't hire someone to tell you what to do, to decide things for you.  The hierarchy polar is operating under is wrong.

Ali

Yes, just because someone has had success in any type of business for a period of time does not make them infallible. Kenneth Lay was a pretty successful man for a while.

[polar]

just because my client hires me doesn't mean i don't run the show.  they hire me to run the show.  we may start on a certain path and if circumstances change mid way or it becomes clear that there are better avenues, please believe that I tell them to change course and do what's most profitable or i quit wasting my time and walk.


edit: and yes, i still get paid for what i already finished

[dman1991]

just because my client hires me doesn't mean i don't run the show.  they hire me to run the show.  we may start on a certain path and if circumstances change mid way or it becomes clear that there are better avenues, please believe that I tell them to change course and do what's most profitable or i quit wasting my time and walk.


edit: and yes, i still get paid for what i already finished

Yes, that is what happens if you are hired to run the show. If you were hired to do something and then changed course to do something you werent needed for, im not sure your clients would be too keen on paying for something that was an obvious unnecessary expense, and something they could have done in 10 minutes themselves.



As for Azoffs response, what a dick. Its weird some criticize others for childish name calling yet fail to recognize exactly what Azoff just did...

[madison]

When an artist hires a manager, they usually hire someone based on their expertise, experience, knowledge and ability to do the best job and generate the most money for them. If the artist then decides not to listen to the expert advice, there's nothing that manager can do and it makes sense for him to resign. But that doesn't mean the manager doesn't get paid for his advice and services.

[Ali]

just because my client hires me doesn't mean i don't run the show.  they hire me to run the show.  we may start on a certain path and if circumstances change mid way or it becomes clear that there are better avenues, please believe that I tell them to change course and do what's most profitable or i quit wasting my time and walk.


edit: and yes, i still get paid for what i already finished

Yeah, your sense of the hierarchy here is off.  Managers are not hired to run the show, and they certainly aren't hired to do so irrespective of the client's wishes and boundaries, especially wishes and boundaries that were made more than clear even to the general public.  Regardless of how it is dressed up, the client writes the check for the manager. Given that, the client's word is the final and deciding one.

Ali

[dman1991]

When an artist hires a manager, they usually hire someone based on their expertise, experience, knowledge and ability to do the best job and generate the most money for them. If the artist then decides not to listen to the expert advice, there's nothing that manager can do and it makes sense for him to resign. But that doesn't mean the manager doesn't get paid for his advice and services.

Yes but you would have to be a moron to hire someone to take a piss for you, that is literally how easy it would be for axl to put together a reunion tour. I am more than sure as prima madonna and control freakish as axl is said to be he would make sure to hire Azoff on the basis that he was not there or needed for a reunion. I really hope there is no stupid business law that favors Azoff in this one. Was he really that greedy and dumb to think he could strong arm a piece of a GNR reunion tour?

Lets look at Axls business history as far as the GNR name goes as colloborated with many's opinions on what happened with the band. Axl went control crazy and took Gnr from every angle he could, stopping at nothing to get as much control and power over his band and bandmates as he could. Why is he not capable of out smarting Azoff?