Religious Trolling Par Excellence

[sunnyp]

If there was a billion copys of my photo album I could give a shit less.

What you see as paper, these people see as a way of life.

Some people around the world live by a different moral compass. If you don't understand that, then you may find travelling useful.

America has spent billions and billions of dollars in trying to undermine foreign cultures and ways of life, case in point Communism. Attacking through military means is a big no no in this day and age. The US has achieved something that no other Empire has before it; using culture and economics as weapons. Hollywood and corporate business work side by side in going to a country, investing heavily in marketing, and then alienating entire generations against their own cultures and ways of life. It's happening right now and it's very powerful.

Sit back, smoke some dooby and watch this. Pay particular attention to the old American with glasses about half way through.

Bombardment - Part 1 - 1 Giant Leap

 

[2NaFish]

The US has achieved something that no other Empire has before it; using culture and economics as weapons. Hollywood and corporate business work side by side in going to a country, investing heavily in marketing, and then alienating entire generations against their own cultures and ways of life. It's happening right now and it's very powerful.

I agree with the rest of what you say but every power through history has attempted to force its culture on others. This is nothing new.

[sunnyp]

I agree with the rest of what you say but every power through history has attempted to force its culture on others. This is nothing new.

Attempted, yes. Succeeded, perhaps not. America has invented the perfect means to impose itself on its own and others without resorting to "clubbing the bastards over the head" to get what they want.

I can't think of another example of such a sophisticated system throughout history. Then again, I'm not a historian. 

[2NaFish]

To compare the sophistication would be an anachronism and historians hate anachronisms; except when they occur in Blackadder, then we chuckle knowingly.

Just one example of a highly sophisticated system of attempting to destroy native culture and replace it over time without resorting to purely using violence would be the Carolingian attempts to bring christianity to what is now germany - a christianity with the carolngian leader as Holy Roman Emperor. A key example of this would be The Heliand, which is the gospel of matthew translated in to the vernacular (incredibly uncommon till the 16th century) with jesus as the head of a warrior band of nobles who love fighting and feasting; its Jesus meets Beowulf. All done to make it more palatable to the locals. Most importantly, whilst we have lots of copies of it - meaning a huge effort to disseminate it widely - we only have evidence of this document being created over a relatively short period of time, meaning it was a stop gap measure to get the locals in to the tent as part of a longer strategy. All pretty sophisticated for the 9th century and infinitely preferable to the forced baptisms the carolingians practised elsewhere in their empire.

[dman1991]

What you see as paper, these people see as a way of life.

Some people around the world live by a different moral compass. If you don't understand that, then you may find travelling useful.

America has spent billions and billions of dollars in trying to undermine foreign cultures and ways of life, case in point Communism. Attacking through military means is a big no no in this day and age. The US has achieved something that no other Empire has before it; using culture and economics as weapons. Hollywood and corporate business work side by side in going to a country, investing heavily in marketing, and then alienating entire generations against their own cultures and ways of life. It's happening right now and it's very powerful.

Sit back, smoke some dooby and watch this. Pay particular attention to the old American with glasses about half way through.

Bombardment - Part 1 - 1 Giant Leap

 

I am fully aware of it, i just dont agree with nor do I understand people who use religion to control the way people think or act, or people who become incensed and harm people over differing viewpoints or beliefs. There are people in america who would be just as offended had it been a bible that was being burned. I dont need to travel to understand that religion is not worth killing over.

[nemo]

I agree with the rest of what you say but every power through history has attempted to force its culture on others. This is nothing new.

Perhaps over simplifying a tad, but the Mongols always struck me as quite keen on synthesizing the cultures of the lands they conquered as much as imposing their own culture upon the locals, I always got the impression that really they just liked killing people because it allowed them to travel; sort of like if Rambo ever took a gap year between school and Vietnam.

I am fully aware of it, i just dont agree with nor do I understand people who use religion to control the way people think or act, or people who become incensed and harm people over differing viewpoints or beliefs.

Speaking of which, the pope's visiting the UK this week, and heading to my old home town.  Sadly the majority of the boos and/or cheers he receives while there will be based on what football team the spectator supports rather than any understanding of what he stands for/believes in.

[UcudBmine]

as long as they are not originals ... why not?

this

seriously guys, i don't get all this religion bullshit

Quit burning Qur'ans, how about you read it instead? Might learn somethin....

you'll learn 0, just like you learn 0 from reading the bible

[sunnyp]

To compare the sophistication would be an anachronism and historians hate anachronisms; except when they occur in Blackadder, then we chuckle knowingly.

Just one example of a highly sophisticated system of attempting to destroy native culture and replace it over time without resorting to purely using violence would be the Carolingian attempts to bring christianity to what is now germany - a christianity with the carolngian leader as Holy Roman Emperor. A key example of this would be The Heliand, which is the gospel of matthew translated in to the vernacular (incredibly uncommon till the 16th century) with jesus as the head of a warrior band of nobles who love fighting and feasting; its Jesus meets Beowulf. All done to make it more palatable to the locals. Most importantly, whilst we have lots of copies of it - meaning a huge effort to disseminate it widely - we only have evidence of this document being created over a relatively short period of time, meaning it was a stop gap measure to get the locals in to the tent as part of a longer strategy. All pretty sophisticated for the 9th century and infinitely preferable to the forced baptisms the carolingians practised elsewhere in their empire.

Interesting. I was not aware of this.

So has any other empire/civilisation managed to use economics as a cultural weapon?

Haven't most others just tried to achieve this through military means?

[2NaFish]

Interesting. I was not aware of this.

So has any other empire/civilisation managed to use economics as a cultural weapon?

Haven't most others just tried to achieve this through military means?

Economic studies of the middle ages are largely pointless, imo, so never did it for me. Its largely a pre-capitalist society so to judge it by capitalist standards is pretty tough. Economics as means to cultural change? Hmm, its a bit abstract but i suppose a case could be made. Off the top of my head i know that following the norman conquest large swathes of the north of england remained 'wild' for years, I also know great amounts of money were spent on churches (castles too if truth be told, but they were largely defensive and more centred on the welsh border). The normans used to church as a cultural weapon in many ways; one such way was that they were the first monarchy to ensure the church had the masses say prayers for the royal family every sunday. And this wasnt just a french beauracracy forced onto an existing saxon system; those that remained (specifically wulfstan of worcester) were guaranteed lands and other economic benefits - which had a trickle down effect on the local community) in return for a 'pro-norman' outlook from the pulpit of a powerful Anglo-Saxon bishop.

Thats just off the top of my head mind, i'm sure given time and a lack of ignorance i'd do better.

[sunnyp]

Economic studies of the middle ages are largely pointless, imo, so never did it for me. Its largely a pre-capitalist society so to judge it by capitalist standards is pretty tough. Economics as means to cultural change? Hmm, its a bit abstract but i suppose a case could be made. Off the top of my head i know that following the norman conquest large swathes of the north of england remained 'wild' for years, I also know great amounts of money were spent on churches (castles too if truth be told, but they were largely defensive and more centred on the welsh border). The normans used to church as a cultural weapon in many ways; one such way was that they were the first monarchy to ensure the church had the masses say prayers for the royal family every sunday. And this wasnt just a french beauracracy forced onto an existing saxon system; those that remained (specifically wulfstan of worcester) were guaranteed lands and other economic benefits - which had a trickle down effect on the local community) in return for a 'pro-norman' outlook from the pulpit of a powerful Anglo-Saxon bishop.

Thats just off the top of my head mind, i'm sure given time and a lack of ignorance i'd do better.

Curiouser and curiouser.

1. So really, this mix of religion and economics has been used before. I suppose the American attempt to invade the world through TV is just a reinterpretation of an age old trick.

2. Is 'church' a verb?

[2NaFish]

1. I'd imagine it'd be impossible to effectively take over anywhere without a use every available option to a certain degree.
2. Replace 'to' with 'the'. Frankly your question made me consider stuff i'd not given a second thought to for a few years now and had to resort to filler from my dissertation to give a half-way decent answer, which, tbh, i'm not perfectly happy with. If i had access to the uni library i'd find the document that states that richard the lionheart gave William the Marshall 2,000 pounds to "serve english interests" (bribe local business to support certain, very dull, english causes) in Flanders. But i dont, so i cant.

[Sean]

this

seriously guys, i don't get all this religion bullshit

you'll learn 0, just like you learn 0 from reading the bible

I spent about 9 years in a religious institution ... well schooling, brain washing    ... whatever floats your boat.  I have its beliefs drilled into me some way or another that isn't an understanding but more of a way of life since I started so young. So I live it without being a practicing pigeon but I still say burn if you want....  its freedom of your own expression.  or read it first then burn if you want. I can't stand all this fucking fear.