The WikiLeaks Thread

[mooney]

Suprised no one had made one.

What do we think? Are we pro WikiLeaks? is the Julian Assange manhunt fair? And have you ben shocked etc... by any of the cables.

I found the Iran stuff interesting. All the Arab leaders calling for Iran to be attacked. If you look at the public opinion in the region though, 88% think Israel is the biggest threat, 77% the US and only 10% Iran (the Brooking Institute conducted the poll a few months back). Shows a complete lack of any kind of democratic principles right across the board.

discuss!

[2NaFish]

they're really tame. if the boy finds anything decent gimme a shout.

[mooney]

they're really tame. if the boy finds anything decent gimme a shout.

i agree that thus far the content isn't exactly heavyweight or hard-hitting. At this stage the principle of freedom of information is taking centre stage, and being grossly oppressed by all the authorities. All when the US' World Press Freedom days date is announced! Here's what The Guardian are reporting on it (it's quite funny actually);

'The theme for next year's commemoration will be 21st Century Media: New Frontiers, New Barriers. The United States places technology and
innovation at the forefront of its diplomatic and development efforts. New media has empowered citizens around the world to report on their circumstances, express opinions on world events, and exchange information in environments sometimes hostile to such exercises of individuals' right to freedom of expression. At the same time, we are concerned about the determination of some governments to censor and silence individuals, and to restrict the free flow of information. We mark events such as World Press Freedom Day in the context of our enduring commitment to support and expand press freedom and the free flow of information in this digital age.'

- that's an email from Philip Crowley at the state department. Irony.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-updates#start-of-comments

[nemo]

More than 'they're really tame', which is undeniably true thus far; surely the greater point has been the horrific reaction of world government to this?  We've seen:

People in positions of political power and influence calling for a journalist to be executed/assassinated for doing journalism.
A man denied bail and facing extradition to Sweden and probably onwards to America to finally face god knows what charges because it's suspected he shagged 2 girls, both of whom later boasted about having slept with him, without wearing a condom.
Concerted DDOS attacks on Wikileaks.
Attempts to take the site offline and prosecute companies responsible for hosting the site.
Freezing and/or closing of individuals' bank accounts.
Companies conveniently ending their association with Wikileaks (all non-political, of course)
Pay-pal, VISA and Mastercard all suddenly deciding to stop processing or allowing donations to wikileaks (again, non-political...)
A government essentially saying that anything that happens anywhere in the world that they judge to be damaging or detrimental to them is illegal worldwide and anyone who perpetrates those acts will be hunted down and stopped.  Followed by the rest of the governments of the world agreeing and coming out to help them achieve this.

Certain of those things make me a little uncomfortable.  As do (assuming of course they ever think about these things) the logical knots the supposedly hardcore libertarians (assuming of course that they are actually hardcore libertarians) must be tying themselves into in order to get themselves whipped up into such a vehemently vengeful frenzy.

I'd say we've also seen, proof positive, evidence to show that politicians believe they exist on an entirely different plane, operating on an entirely different level with entirely different rights, moral codes and standards of ethics, to that which they expect the rest of us to live by.  Hopefully people won't forget that in a hurry.

I'll be interested to see, if and when it does get released, the information they claim to be holding which proves top to bottom institutional corruption and illegality in the practices of a major investment bank (and by a major investment bank i think we can safely assume all investment banks by association) and also how 'the market' reacts to these. 

Look at the numbers of people out in the streets of Europe the past few months, look at the reactions to government spending cuts and bail-outs, look at the reaction these leaks are causing, think of the effect the next set of leaks could potentially have if they expose in plain black and white terms how much the banks are screwing people and how people are going to react when they realise that we've got no public services left because we gave all the money to those banks to keep them going.  there is a chance that something could happen here.

[mooney]

things will get very interesting when the banks stuff comes out - i think things have been very interesting already, not with regard to the cables themselves but absolutely with regard to the list of reactions from governments that you posted, nemo.

With regard to the rape allegations, i thought the charges were actually dropped a couple months ago? i distinctly remember reading something like that, so it seems very convenient that they should resurface now.

[nemo]

things will get very interesting when the banks stuff comes out - i think things have been very interesting already, not with regard to the cables themselves but absolutely with regard to the list of reactions from governments that you posted, nemo.

With regard to the rape allegations, i thought the charges were actually dropped a couple months ago? i distinctly remember reading something like that, so it seems very convenient that they should resurface now.

They were.  Charges were filed in Stockholm, reviewed by the prosecutor who decided there was no case to answer and dropped them.  a while afterward another prosecutor in Gothenburg had a looksie at them and decided he should be on interpol's most wanted list. 

There exists in fact an interview with one of his accusors floating around the internet where she says she did not wish for him to be charged with rape, she doesn't feel threatened by him, nor did she feel forced by him at the time they slept together, but she does think he has an attitudinal problem toward women.  Essentially she thinks he's a bit of a misogynist.  That's not a great thing to be, granted, and he does tend to come across as a sanctimonious, grandiloquent arse whenever he speaks in public, but it's hardly worthy of extradition.

[L!VE FREE!]

Someone want to tell me what this brew-ha-ha is all about?

WikiLeaks tries to release hidden/supressed/whatever stories, I get that.
But I guess I don't get the controversy and all that beyond people wanting to hide their ass.

Haven't had time to do research on it myself....

[bucketsixx]

they're really tame. if the boy finds anything decent gimme a shout.

I hear he haz stories on UFOS OMG!!

[2NaFish]

I hear he haz stories on UFOS OMG!!

im on my phone so if someone could post a picture of Alf (if you could get on of him from the simpsons where he is on a POG - its from the episode where bart sells his soul) that would be lovely.

After reading nemo's post i did some reading up on the aftermath. It really is quite impressive how the system completely pwns this guy for mildly fucking with them. Christ, all he did was say that someone thought prince andrew was a dick. Like i say, impressive to see the machine point its collective 14 inch pecker at this guy and unload wave after wave of totalitarian jism all over his puss.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

[polar]

Haven't had time to do research on it myself....

i'd say that sums up pretty much every post we'll get in this thread

[mooney]

i'd say that sums up pretty much every post we'll get in this thread

the articles and coverage is pretty clear and extensive on The Guardian's website. I did try myself to go through the actual cables but it's such a task for one person.

They were.  Charges were filed in Stockholm, reviewed by the prosecutor who decided there was no case to answer and dropped them.  a while afterward another prosecutor in Gothenburg had a looksie at them and decided he should be on interpol's most wanted list. 

There exists in fact an interview with one of his accusors floating around the internet where she says she did not wish for him to be charged with rape, she doesn't feel threatened by him, nor did she feel forced by him at the time they slept together, but she does think he has an attitudinal problem toward women.  Essentially she thinks he's a bit of a misogynist.  That's not a great thing to be, granted, and he does tend to come across as a sanctimonious, grandiloquent arse whenever he speaks in public, but it's hardly worthy of extradition.

thanks for clearing that up.

[nemo]

the articles and coverage is pretty clear and extensive on The Guardian's website. I did try myself to go through the actual cables but it's such a task for one person.

There's only really just over 300 of them out so far for the public to look at.  Will take you a couple of hours to get through.  But apart from the odd nugget a lot of it isn't really that interesting so far.

[polar]

really, nothing interesting so far?   ok.  go back to sleep everyone, shhhh

[nemo]

Well, OK there's the denial of involvement in bombing and killing civilians in Yemen exposed as a lie, the suggestion that Saudi Arabia form some sort of NATOesque body to protect their interests in the middle-east, and of course the fact that now people can't deny certain things which we've already suspected but they've been able to avoid on grounds of plausible deniability or fear of being done for libel, etc.  Nothing world changing in them (not that things have to be world changing to be important or interesting of course)

I still think the reaction to them is more important than anything that's come out in the communications themselves thus far.  Though I do accept that having these things potentially exposed to everyone rather than just the people who spend half their lives reading is obviously going to be hugely beneficial in bringing some things which I doubted the importance of as already known or suspected to a wider audience.