PATRIOT Act up for renewal this month

[polar]

Did you hear that the PATRIOT Act is up for re-authorization? No? Well, perhaps the US intelligence services can still keep a secret.

President George W. Bush signed the PATRIOT Act into law on October 26, 2001. Nearly a decade later, some of its the most noxious provisions have burrowed their way deep into our legal system.

A year ago, President Obama signed a bill extending three provisions of the original Patriot Act. Last week Congressman Mike Rogers (R-Michigan), Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, introduced another extension of those provisions, triggering what's sure to be a bipartisan effort to continue to deny Americans their civil liberties.

The bill starts with so-called "roving wiretaps" that allow the government to spy on a nebulous array of individuals and devices, without specifying any of them ahead of time. The FBI could, with a single search warrant, raid every house or office that an individual suspect has visited over an entire year -- every single place, whether or not the residents themselves are suspects.

Then there's the eerily-named "lone wolf" provision, which lets the government apply the full power of the special courts created to deal with foreign spies against anyone who the government alleges is "preparing to attack." You don't even have to commit a crime to get these super-powered courts targeting you -- the Justice Department says that just visiting a flagged website would be enough!

But worst of all is the infamous "Section 215". This incredible provision allows the government to take whatever they want -- your phone records, medical records, email history, whatever -- without having to show you're suspected of a crime, or even relevant to an investigation! But it gets worse -- not only can the government just search through your personal records whenever they feel like it, but everyone involved is under a gag order to never let you know that you're being spied on -- and to ensure that you can never challenge the order in court. The government could be looking through your emails right now and you'll never even know.

The ACLU has a quick-and-dirty overview of some of the problems with these provisions over here.

Together, these provisions make a mockery of our civil liberties -- letting the government spy on whomever they want, for any reason, without ever letting them know or giving them a chance to challenge the order in court. There's a reason that even after 9/11, these provisions were seen as a bridge too far. But now it's almost full decade later, and Republicans are leading the way to extend them yet again!

[DrRedFox]

The Constitution is becoming irrelevant each year now...

[aintitfun22]

Your in favor of the patriot act right polar?

[mooney]

could you provide a link to the article please, polar?

[dman1991]

Did you hear that the PATRIOT Act is up for re-authorization? No? Well, perhaps the US intelligence services can still keep a secret.

President George W. Bush signed the PATRIOT Act into law on October 26, 2001. Nearly a decade later, some of its the most noxious provisions have burrowed their way deep into our legal system.

A year ago, President Obama signed a bill extending three provisions of the original Patriot Act. Last week Congressman Mike Rogers (R-Michigan), Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, introduced another extension of those provisions, triggering what's sure to be a bipartisan effort to continue to deny Americans their civil liberties.

The bill starts with so-called "roving wiretaps" that allow the government to spy on a nebulous array of individuals and devices, without specifying any of them ahead of time. The FBI could, with a single search warrant, raid every house or office that an individual suspect has visited over an entire year -- every single place, whether or not the residents themselves are suspects.

Then there's the eerily-named "lone wolf" provision, which lets the government apply the full power of the special courts created to deal with foreign spies against anyone who the government alleges is "preparing to attack." You don't even have to commit a crime to get these super-powered courts targeting you -- the Justice Department says that just visiting a flagged website would be enough!

But worst of all is the infamous "Section 215". This incredible provision allows the government to take whatever they want -- your phone records, medical records, email history, whatever -- without having to show you're suspected of a crime, or even relevant to an investigation! But it gets worse -- not only can the government just search through your personal records whenever they feel like it, but everyone involved is under a gag order to never let you know that you're being spied on -- and to ensure that you can never challenge the order in court. The government could be looking through your emails right now and you'll never even know.

The ACLU has a quick-and-dirty overview of some of the problems with these provisions over here.

Together, these provisions make a mockery of our civil liberties -- letting the government spy on whomever they want, for any reason, without ever letting them know or giving them a chance to challenge the order in court. There's a reason that even after 9/11, these provisions were seen as a bridge too far. But now it's almost full decade later, and Republicans are leading the way to extend them yet again!

No link? we all know u didnt type this.

Besides that though, yes. Giffords was a great hit on free speech, they are even making the politicians be more pc, which in turn will extend to the people. Great. Cant wait till A facebook drama post turns into an arrest!

[dman1991]

The Constitution is becoming irrelevant each year now...

False, we are here, and we see whats going on. It will never be irrelevant. No more defeatist attitudes. I am seeing too much of that... everywhere. No one is that smart, just a few corruptors in the government, thats all.

The people are always the third party, and dont ever forget that. Without the people you have nothing, its a constant rule, since the earliest moments of history. How will the govt run without 300 mil population to pay for it? It wont.

The second you are asked to go to a fema camp you better run!!!

[Sean]

could you provide a link to the article please, polar?

as the article stated,   ....   the ACLU has a lot on this.  ACLU has a very good reputation.

http://www.aclu.org/    just got to their search >  type in Patriot Act > Sort by date...   and most of this stuff is documented right there.

[mooney]

as the article stated,   ....   the ACLU has a lot on this.  ACLU has a very good reputation.

http://www.aclu.org/    just got to their search >  type in Patriot Act > Sort by date...   and most of this stuff is documented right there.

cheers. i didnt recognise the name until i clicked the link and saw the site, but i was on there just the other day actually.

[polar]

could you provide a link to the article please, polar?

http://news.google.com/news/more?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=patriot+act&cp=8&qe=cGF0cmlvdCA&qesig=LCX9kl90BF_N03BbpgvXVw&pkc=AFgZ2tm9AN0ZNSMZ46d8ZwXdt94FnNaF-HJNBMUnLBNgAtsqrssPRoOuapXpzCUJthT79441HtacjP32skHTuU5b-uZHIZZmPQ&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dr6VNA93ZQRZ-aM0jpWIXYqhLl2iM&ei=qP02Tfr-DYLcgQe3hJGbBA&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CEEQqgIwAw

pretty weird, google patriot act for news, only 2 news articles about the renewal.  one is the most mainstream progressive blog on the internet, the other is the john birch society, one of a handful of actual right wing groups out there.  it's nice to see progressives take up a right wing issue

[Rocket Queen]

I always found it hysterical how the same people  who fear a big strong government and believe in Constitutional Supremacy are the same people who support bills like these who take away your constitutional rights, like Due Process of Law...they also gladly give the government the power to decide who lives or dies...

Ah...logic. Where art thou?

[polar]

I always found it hysterical how the same people  who fear a big strong government and believe in Constitutional Supremacy are the same people who support bills like these who take away your constitutional rights, like Due Process of Law...they also gladly give the government the power to decide who lives or dies...

Ah...logic. Where art thou?

where was this insight when you were challenging my statement in the israel bombing iran thread where i said there was no right in the US?

[Rocket Queen]

Hmm, fair enough, maybe. Where is there a 'right'? What would you define as the right?

[polar]

Hmm, fair enough, maybe. Where is there a 'right'? What would you define as the right?

good question

as anyone who follows chomsky on this forum knows, the meaning of a word can be perverted and changed pretty easily

i, along with many others, would define right and left on a scale, extreme left being Darth Vadar ruling the universe, censoring the news and Mark Twain, and rationing out everything a person needs to live life at the expense of their liberty.  extreme right is anarchy, self reliance, personal responsibility, and complete liberty.

anarchy is unsustainable, I am not in favor of it because I believe in laws, law enforcement, a national defense, and personal freedom as long as it doesn't stop others from pursuing their own personal freedom.  the US was set up to be a republic, which means we have a govt but they have a very limited scope to what they can do and control.  our country was set up to be about 10 degrees left of anarchy, we were called the American Experiment, and it was working, until the last century or so where we have allowed Keynesianism and an out of control federal govt ruin everything we fought to have in the first place

[Rocket Queen]

I too, of course, look at left and right on a scale. It can problematic precisely when we use terms like "liberal" and "conservative" or left/right because those who are liberal economically might not be liberal when it comes to abortion and other ethical dilemmas. In Norway, when you say "liberal" people think of a rightist who would be called conservative/republican here, whereas here liberals are the opposite. I'm just trying to say, you could place someone on a different side of the scale based on what factors you are judging them from. Everything is relative, to most Europeans Americans are considered far right, many European parties who are considered rightist in Europe would on a scale probably end up quite far left away from what people view as rightist here in the U.S.

Your definition of the scale is interesting, studying political science in two extremely different countries on the political scale I feel like both countries misunderstand the other on the same level. If we look at your definition of the scale, I could perhaps agree that there is no "real right" in the U.S, or maybe far right, because on the economical right/left scale you are still right of what I consider center of the scale, you have fairly low taxes, of course you have government subsidies for agricultural products and regulation on businesses etc. but you are still capitalistic and I still consider you right on the economical scale, considering civil liberties, the patriots act and the stalin-esque policing that might be going after the patriot act has made it "legal" I guess that would drag you closer to the left and conflict with your economical ideologies. If you will allow me to compare the wire tapping of basically any individual, (without need for a warrant, and without them being notified of being a suspect, resulting in taking away even more Constitutional rights, as they lose their due process of law when they cannot challenge the government in court) and location they have previously visited, for any reason they might seem fit, or more accurately, any individual they "suspect" for really no real reason to be a "threat" to the U.S, that strikes me as alarmingly similar to the espionage that defined the Soviet Union and their complete and utter disregard for any civil rights or liberties.  If this rambling makes any sense to you at all.

In Europe I think, correct me if I am wrong fellow Euros, we would place the anarchist ideology on the extreme left. Reason being, I guess, is that what communism's ultimate goal, unlike any attempt or rape of the ideology we have seen to this day, is to abolish government, and give the power to the people, or the workers. The Soviet Union was never real communism. This is greatly simplifying, but still, the step further left after communism, would be anarchism where there are no regulations at all.




Found this interesting.

Personally I don't know where you would place me on the scale at the moment, I am very inlike with civil liberties,  according to the "scale" above I am sorta going towards Ultra-Liberalish. Where would you place yourself?