Guns on Campus in Texas

[polar]

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms.

More than half the members of the Texas House have signed on as co-authors of a measure directing universities to allow concealed handguns. The Senate passed a similar bill in 2009 and is expected to do so again. Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who sometimes packs a pistol when he jogs, has said he's in favor of the idea.

Texas has become a prime battleground for the issue because of its gun culture and its size, with 38 public universities and more than 500,000 students. It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option and several have allowed handguns.

Supporters of the legislation argue that gun violence on campuses, such as the mass shootings at Virginia Tech in 2007 and Northern Illinois in 2008, show that the best defense against a gunman is students who can shoot back.

"It's strictly a matter of self-defense," said state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio. "I don't ever want to see repeated on a Texas college campus what happened at Virginia Tech, where some deranged, suicidal madman goes into a building and is able to pick off totally defenseless kids like sitting ducks."

Until the Virginia Tech incident, the worst college shooting in U.S. history occurred at the University of Texas, when sniper Charles Whitman went to the top of the administration tower in 1966 and killed 16 people and wounded dozens. Last September, a University of Texas student fired several shots from an assault rifle before killing himself.

Similar firearms measures have been proposed in about a dozen other states, but all face strong opposition, especially from college leaders. In Oklahoma, all 25 public college and university presidents declared their opposition to a concealed carry proposal.

"There is no scenario where allowing concealed weapons on college campuses will do anything other than create a more dangerous environment for students, faculty, staff and visitors," Oklahoma Chancellor of Higher Education Glen Johnson said in January.

University of Texas President William Powers has opposed concealed handguns on campus, saying the mix of students, guns and campus parties is too volatile.

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AdvertisementGuns occupy a special place in Texas culture. Politicians often tout owning a gun as essential to being Texan. Concealed handgun license holders are allowed to skip the metal detectors that scan Capitol visitors for guns, knives and other contraband.

Guns on campus bills have been rejected in 23 states since 2007, but gun control activists acknowledge it will be difficult to stop the Texas bill from passing this year. "Things do look bleak," said Colin Goddard, assistant director of federal legislation for the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence, who was in Austin recently to lobby against the Texas bills.

Goddard was a student at Virginia Tech when he was shot four times in his French class. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people, including 10 in Goddard's classroom, before shooting himself. Goddard dismisses the idea that another student with a gun could have stopped the killer.

"People tell me that if they would have been there, they would have shot that guy. That offends me," Goddard said. "People want to be the hero, I understand that. They play video games and they think they understand the reality. It's nothing like that."

But Derek Titus, a senior at Texas A&M who has a state license to carry a concealed handgun, said someone with a gun that day could have improved the chances of survival.

"Gun-free zones are shooting galleries for the mass murderers," Titus said. "We do not feel that we must rely on the police or security forces to defend our lives."

Texas enacted its concealed handgun law in 1995, allowing people 21 or older to carry weapons if they pass a training course and a background check. The state had 461,724 license holders as of Dec. 31, according to the state Department of Public Safety.

Businesses, schools and churches can set rules banning guns on their premises. On college campuses, guns are prohibited in buildings, dorms and certain grounds around them.

Opponents of campus gun rights say students and faculty would live in fear of their classmates and colleagues, not knowing who might pull a gun over a poor grade, a broken romance or a drunken fraternity argument.

Frankie Shulkin, a first-year law student at the University of Texas, said he doesn't think he'd feel safer if other students in his classes had guns.

"If I was taking an exam and knew the person next to me had one, I don't know how comfortable I would feel," Shulkin said. "I am in favor of guns rights and your typical conservative guy, but the classroom thing bugs me."

Wentworth said he heard the "blood on the streets" warnings when Texas first passed the concealed handgun law. "They said we'd have shootouts at every intersection," he said. "None of that has happened."

[Rocket Queen]

Not sure how I feel about this. I don't feel safe around guns, but that includes security guards that carry them here on campus.

[Sean]

look....      Just make cute little pink guns - background check - 21 years old - training approved - registered

and stop the fear already.        Axe killings, big peckers, shovels, guns, candle sticks, chain saws >>>>  all the same. 

I'm not in favor of a specific law that gives the right though.  more like if they just erased (deregulate) the laws that forbid.

Weird Science Full Bar Scene

[Rocket Queen]

look....      Just make cute little pink guns - background check - 21 years old - training approved - registered

and stop the fear already.        Axe killings, big peckers, shovels, guns, candle sticks, chain saws >>>>  all the same. 

I'm not in favor of a specific law that gives the right though.  more like if they just erased (deregulate) the laws that forbid.


Weird Science Full Bar Scene

It is definitely not the same. Axe, shovel etc..your chance of survival is insanely higher, especially because he can't kill a large amount of people in a short period of time, and you can just run off... I would def prefer to have my school attacked by an axe man...

[2NaFish]

Guns on campus in texas? To think they used to headline stadiums and now they're stuck playing frathouses. Its all gone to shit.

[dman1991]

Cmon now, even in the wild west you eventually had to check your guns at the saloon or leave em home, this is just dumb. This should not even enter the pro-anti gun debate. This is a completely different issue altogether. Its no ones constitutional right to carry a gun at school.

[polar]

Cmon now, even in the wild west you eventually had to check your guns at the saloon or leave em home, this is just dumb.

comparing guns on campus to a private property issue is what is dumb

[Sean]

exactly that was my point

It is definitely not the same. Axe, shovel etc..your chance of survival is insanely higher, especially because he can't kill a large amount of people in a short period of time, and you can just run off... I would def prefer to have my school attacked by an axe man...

It is the same...   most people who have guns use them wisely, most people who use shovels use them wisely, same goods for Dirk Diggler  as he is complete control.  Same as your car that kills more people than guns.  So if somebody was attacking people with an Axe in your public school... then the odds are of a trained professional to take him down.   The odds are imo, that the sick fruitcakes all over the world who shoot up schools have no formal training and have not been through the proper procedures to take it seriously.       but yea if some thug is flaunting a pistil at school... that is an indication to run and yea better off being an axe killer.. but at the same time it would be highly unlikely.

I personally would like to take up the sport and own a gun. Intend meetings. Join a club and because I am respectable citizen I might carry as well.   just don't mess with me 

[dman1991]

comparing guns on campus to a private property issue is what is dumb

Ugh, you... not really sure what your getting at, as you pick one sentence then briefly comment on it without really making any real judgement on the actual issue. Im not  trying to go deep on this one, dont think this merits much discussion, to me this is a common  sense issue. Just no.

Considering this as something that should even be seriously discussed is what is dumb. Any more pieces of peoples statements you would like to debate madison?

exactly that was my point
It is the same...   most people who have guns use them wisely, most people who use shovels use them wisely, same goods for Dirk Diggler  as he is complete control.  Same as your car that kills more people than guns.  So if somebody was attacking people with an Axe in your public school... then the odds are of a trained professional to take him down.   The odds are imo, that the sick fruitcakes all over the world who shoot up schools have no formal training and have not been through the proper procedures to take it seriously.       but yea if some thug is flaunting a pistil at school... that is an indication to run and yea better off being an axe killer.. but at the same time it would be highly unlikely.

I personally would like to take up the sport and own a gun. Intend meetings. Join a club and because I am respectable citizen I might carry as well.   just don't mess with me 

Pretty sure people dont carry axes around at school or anywhere but a lumber yard or the woods.

[polar]

Ugh, you... not really sure what your getting at, as you pick one sentence then briefly comment on it without really making any real judgement on the actual issue. Im not  trying to go deep on this one, dont think this merits much discussion, to me this is a common  sense issue. Just no.

Considering this as something that should even be seriously discussed is what is dumb. Any more pieces of peoples statements you would like to debate madison?

a saloon is private property.  they can say no guns allowed.  my house is private property, i can say no guns allowed.  the question is, do you consider a state university to be public property?  come on i know you can do it if you try

[dman1991]

a saloon is private property.  they can say no guns allowed.  my house is private property, i can say no guns allowed.  the question is, do you consider a state university to be public property?  come on i know you can do it if you try

The answer is it doesnt matter either way, before any of those issue's come into question it should just be a no. No public vs private, no right to carry vs control, nothing, just no. Even if it was a private campus, no, people should be smart enough to figure that out on their own, without having to discuss rights or laws or anything, just no.

Im not anti gun, I agree with the whole people kill people philosophy, but in my opinion that doesnt matter. Again, common sense, a bunch of 18 to 24 year olds walking around with guns at school, just no. That still wouldnt quell an outburst by a psycho with an uzi, its not like everyone is walking around like a security guard waiting for it to happen.

Now maybe if the teachers wanted to get certified, thats a another story, and yes I guess state schools would be considered public property.

[Sean]

whats the difference between an individual with with a teaching job and an adult student who just happens to have a gun permit?      I agree the answer 'just being no' about laws ONLY pertaining to public schools....  should be read instead including all public places.  Its on the individual we are talking here, not system based on big brother.

Again, common sense, a bunch of 18 to 24 year olds walking around with guns at school, just no.

We aren't talking highshool here.  we are talking about adults in public places. and who are certified and registered.  If somebody would go to all that trouble to get get a gun permit and use it irresponsibly... that is a whole other issue and of course he shouldn't own it.

[polar]

Again, common sense, a bunch of 18 to 24 year olds walking around with guns at school, just no.

this is logical fallacy one could use to argue any position. 

[dman1991]

I agree with being able to carry a concealed weapon in public with the right certs, I was only referring to school aspect. I was saying teachers as an argument to the deterrent angle. Teachers are obviously more mature and responsible than college students, so if one wanted to argue that schools would be safer with more guns, then I would have to say a fair compromise would be to give the established adults the ability to carry.

I do not agree that college students are adults, some yes, but for the most part they are in continuation from high school and still are treated as such. Most still answer to mommy, dont pay bills, etc... Sure they are over 18, but really they are just in high school where they dont have to come home every night. I was that age once upon a time.