Occupy err.... Everywhere!

[mooney]

Anyone been on/going on a protest? Things are looking quite exciting. Personally I may head up to London on sunday and spend a couple nights there. I wish these things could take place during the summer months though...!

[2NaFish]

god luck moondogg.

probably best not protesting in London next summer, the Olympics will mean a huge crackdown

[sunnyp]

I'm sure it's a quick way of getting your name on a list. Of course, I can understand their need to protest against greed and lack of opportunity. However, St Paul's visitors are down by over 50%. It seems the only lasting impact will be that some poor cathedral staff will lose their jobs.

Speaking of which, do you reckon we'd be turned back from China because we've posted on this site?

[ben vercetti]

I just can't take this thing serious. Just some assholes in Guy Fawkes masks... [shortcut around 10 lines of centre-left political bitching and Occupy bashing] ...to deliver some lethal blow to a system they know nothing about.

But as it is, and always will be, that's the start. Give it a good 15 years to simmer 

[2NaFish]

oh dear, the guy fawkes mask thing? really? anyone that gets their politics from v for vendetta needs a word.

[ben vercetti]

oh dear, the guy fawkes mask thing? really? anyone that gets their politics from v for vendetta needs a word.

Exactly that's the case, so they should drop their fucking masks and march on!

[mooney]

I just can't take this thing serious. Just some assholes in Guy Fawkes masks... [shortcut around 10 lines of centre-left political bitching and Occupy bashing] ...to deliver some lethal blow to a system they know nothing about.

But as it is, and always will be, that's the start. Give it a good 15 years to simmer 

A movement that's taking place all over the world you can't take serious?

I'm sure it's a quick way of getting your name on a list. Of course, I can understand their need to protest against greed and lack of opportunity. However, St Paul's visitors are down by over 50%. It seems the only lasting impact will be that some poor cathedral staff will lose their jobs.

Speaking of which, do you reckon we'd be turned back from China because we've posted on this site?

There definitely needs to be a more organised day to dedicated to kicking things off on a larger scale - october 15th was the first here. I think 5th November is the one for Plymouth (where i live) so *hopefully* momentum can be maintained.

[ben vercetti]

@mooney: 'Not taking it serious' might not be the right words to express what I wanted to say. It just doesn't seem like something that will create some long-term effect/impact. Either it grows big too fast and spins out of control and every village gazette screams 'terrorism, riots, etc.' or it just fades away in the light of some half-assed reforms or some new lethal flu dragged into the public eye.

I just think that it's probably too early to 'take a side' regarding this topic, since it's a very complex one.

[dman1991]

I have chatted up a few about this. Some people really buy that its a bunch of 20 year old jobless hippies posting up a hippie jam fest in the name of politics. It really seems to be gaining momentum and hopefully it produces a good outcome for the average joe.

[Crash Dieter]

Pleeeease give me something, anything, to protest about.

[Bonehill]

Communist occupying bastards

[2NaFish]

The leaders of the Glasgow one have set up a base in my work and they're the biggest shower of pricks you could ever meet. They want to ban people from the building (areas if the building are public galleries) because, "we think they're saboteurs paid by the state who are intent on bringing down our organization". This from the same arsehole who will bleat about his human rights - and I'm as left wing, namby pamby as the next arts graduate but this walloper doesn't see the hypocrisy.

Every revolution begins with a prophet and ends with a policeman; seems this guy wants to skip to step 2.

[sunnyp]

The leaders of the Glasgow one have set up a base in my work and they're the biggest shower of pricks you could ever meet. They want to ban people from the building (areas if the building are public galleries) because, "we think they're saboteurs paid by the state who are intent on bringing down our organization". This from the same arsehole who will bleat about his human rights - and I'm as left wing, namby pamby as the next arts graduate but this walloper doesn't see the hypocrisy.

Every revolution begins with a prophet and ends with a policeman; seems this guy wants to skip to step 2.

Set the fire alarms off. They'll leave of their own free will after a few hours.

[aintitfun22]

v for vendetta=fantastic film.

[polar]

wow this thread could have had so much potential, what a waste

[mooney]

wow this thread could have had so much potential, what a waste

well I'm handing the baton over to you.. run forest, run...

[sebastian_gnr]

It would of been a good movement, but the protest filled up with hippies asking "what are we against?" "corporate wat?" "you got buds?"

at the end it was just a gathering of people trying to score some drugs.

[mooney]

It would of been a good movement, but the protest filled up with hippies asking "what are we against?" "corporate wat?" "you got buds?"

at the end it was just a gathering of people trying to score some drugs.

Where are you referring to? The camp in Plymouth has been going not far off a month now and your description is nothing like that here in plymouth. I've been to the camp myself and they are quite active on facebook etc... Networking with other camps across the UK, local media, Unite, lively discussions and seminars and the rest... Also, Plymouth has a sizeable homeless population, and they have been looking after homeless people at the camp etc... Local residents have opened their homes so the campers can shower etc... It's been, so far, a really positive thing here.

[Iconic Shawn]

womp womp wommmmp.....

A lot of people puffed their chest about these "occupations" but I knew that when it got cold they'd go home.

The thing is though.. could "we the people" ever effect our government?

The only thing our protesting seems to get done is eventual police might being executed.

How is the US any better than Iran or North Korea at the core then?

We get a lot more freedom than them perhaps, but we're still in a very dictated social state.

It fucking sucks. This country has broken my heart man.

What country then would you guys consider the best? Not best in terms of army and $$, but best in terms of a human being being able to do whatever without limits unless he's hurting someone?

Thats where I want to occupy haha...

~S~

[2NaFish]

yours seems to be a relationship much like catholics have with pre-marital sex. constantly thinking about the govt if only to look at how its making your life awful. The fact that for you the "best country in the world" (a curious concept in a thread where you bemoan relativism) is the one where the govt is kept small and uninvolved.

i say this not to have a go at you, it just seems very foreign to me. there are dozens of other ways to objectively quantify how good life is in a country but to zone in on govt involvement seems odd as though there is some direct correlation one way or the other.

[Iconic Shawn]

I'm really not the anti government freakishly thinking "they're out to get me" but when a man opens a pub and doesn't care if people smoke in it, or rather would rather have smokers smoke in there but the government makes a law where he has to run HIS establishment by their rules is kind of fucked up to me.

Not trying to spin this into a anti/pro smoking thread but its just an example.

It just feels that as a citizen here the gov can pull whatever law out of its ass and little by little we get less and less freedom.

Also, relativism has its place and I believe its natural for people to have relative views about things but there should be some things which are not relative like.. murder, rape etc.

But!  What if those acts are only relatively bad?

What if a person truly believes in his heart that murder is the only way to deal with a human they're having problems with? Or that women should be raped by a man if he wanted to simply because he's bigger and can do it just like it is in the animal kingdom?

Thats where relativism has a big hole in it if you ask me.

~S~

[2NaFish]

that's strong relativism. there arent many people that are strong relativists. if anyone here wants to put their head above the parapet and say they are a strong relativist then you can have a go at them, but like i said, i dont think you'll find anyone that believes in the parts of relativism you find so distasteful

As for your pub scenario, would that be an establishment where he's free to serve liquor presuming he has a licence, but can't serve heroin? If the govt can say who and where alcohol can be served, and presumably you've never kicked a fuss up about that, then where's the big jump to smoking?

[mooney]

womp womp wommmmp.....

A lot of people puffed their chest about these "occupations" but I knew that when it got cold they'd go home.

The thing is though.. could "we the people" ever effect our government?

Protest/demonstrations alone rarely change anything. Protest must be played out alongside other activities like information dissemination, seminars, talks etc... Often when these elements are combined, change does actually happen, albeit often quite small change, or after a painstaking amount of time, eg Vietnam. So the answer to your question is 'yes', but with difficulty and much effort.

How is the US any better than Iran or North Korea at the core then?

What country then would you guys consider the best? Not best in terms of army and $$, but best in terms of a human being being able to do whatever without limits unless he's hurting someone?

~S~

It's not so much a case of being 'better' than North Korea or Iran (bizarre if not understandable choices of country by the way, why not say, Saudi Arabia? A much worse regime than Iran...) Here's an excellent article that sort of moves in the direction of your question, well worth a read (will take only a couple minutes) ... http://johnhilley.blogspot.com/2011/12/north-korea-and-bbc-myth-factory_29.html

As for the last question, again, 'best' is subjective and too broad. The US for example is very good with regard to free speech (better than in the UK). Also, you can occupy wall street with less chance of being shot dead in the street as compared to the countries you mentioned, but it's hardly utopia. There's plenty of 'limits' placed on American citizens, such as the thread that Rocket Queen started.

[haleyP]

I personally like those people who fight for his rights and this protest is just a manifestation of the people fighting for their rights and for that I support them.