Happy New Years!, and...

[Beanie]

We are all just made up of particles of the universe moving from a less ordered state to a more ordered state.

nuh-huh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

HAHA oooppppppssssssss how embarrassing   

I meant t'other way round

[2NaFish]

its okay. lots of creationist have made a very lucrative career from not understanding the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

[Beanie]

its okay. lots of creationist have made a very lucrative career from not understanding the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

 

Up yours.

[mooney]

its okay.

I've noticed this a couple times recently fishman. Your standards are slipping...

[2NaFish]

its okay.

I've noticed this a couple times recently fishman. Your standards are slipping...

blame my fone.

[Iconic Shawn]

The thing with music..

I think all of us, when we hear a sad song it can kind of effect us just as much as when we hear a happy song like.. Nightrain or AC DC's Thunderstruck it just moves something in is.

I'm going to have to put it out there that the feelings Ive had when sincerely looking for God totally blows the above feelings out of the water.  I'm sure a lot of people could come up with a lot of reasons for that but I have to go with, I DO believe the God of Moses, Abraham and such is real.

Nevermind that though..

For those who do not believe in divine creation, what is the purpose of all of this then? Our world, our lives?

If there is no reason to why we're even here, they how can we have reason for anything else?

How can anyone say anything is good over anything thats evil? Who is to say whats what?

People who go with "we're just here" amaze me. They amaze me in that they will say we're here for no reason or purpose yet will have no trouble telling other humans what we're NOT here for.

Like killing and conquering.

If I didn't believe in God (good / evil -  right / wrong), I'd really have no problem killing someone to take their money / car / house / woman or whatever.

And why would I be wrong if I chose to do that just like the animals a lot of people say we're just like, do?

Beanie says: "I know it will never know any different?  I doubt it has the capacity to fear death. "

Have you ever seen a mouse in a snakes cage? Have you ever watched any educational animal shows? Animals fear. Various animals seem to have ALL of our emotions just that they can't talk.

So, if we're just dust in the wind, and you have no problem destroying some roach or something, why should the murderer (or why should you even) care if someone walked up to a kid you didn't know, in front of you, and blew his brains away with a gun?

I believe there is more to our "souls" than some of us would like to admit.

Its easy to cast your spiritual self aside and not worry about all those questions humans have when they "look above" as well as live a life where YOU CHOOSE what YOU want to care about.. but I think its really selfish and glim to live that way.

~S~

[Beanie]

For those who do not believe in divine creation, what is the purpose of all of this then? Our world, our lives?

If there is no reason to why we're even here, they how can we have reason for anything else?

How can anyone say anything is good over anything thats evil? Who is to say whats what?

People who go with "we're just here" amaze me. They amaze me in that they will say we're here for no reason or purpose yet will have no trouble telling other humans what we're NOT here for.

Like killing and conquering.

If I didn't believe in God (good / evil -  right / wrong), I'd really have no problem killing someone to take their money / car / house / woman or whatever.

And why would I be wrong if I chose to do that just like the animals a lot of people say we're just like, do?

Beanie says: "I know it will never know any different?  I doubt it has the capacity to fear death. "

Have you ever seen a mouse in a snakes cage? Have you ever watched any educational animal shows? Animals fear. Various animals seem to have ALL of our emotions just that they can't talk.

So, if we're just dust in the wind, and you have no problem destroying some roach or something, why should the murderer (or why should you even) care if someone walked up to a kid you didn't know, in front of you, and blew his brains away with a gun?

I believe there is more to our "souls" than some of us would like to admit.

Its easy to cast your spiritual self aside and not worry about all those questions humans have when they "look above" as well as live a life where YOU CHOOSE what YOU want to care about.. but I think its really selfish and glim to live that way.

~S~

If I could answer half the questions you've just asked, I'd be a seriously happy person right now. I spend lots of time thinking about all this stuff and wanting to know the answer!

And if I could believe in a God or "souls" believe me I would because I'd LOVE to.  But I just haven't been able to find any evidence of these things.  So don't think I'm just putting my spiritual self to one side... this is genuinely what I believe.  And I have no choice in that.

Unfortunately the answer to most of your questions is that I just don't know.  I'm aware that good/bad/right/wrong is all hypocritical for someone with my beliefs.  But either I was born with, or through social leaning I've ended up with, these damn things called morals.  And they seem to be pretty much on a par with the 'average' human, in that I couldn't kill another human being, but I could easily kill a spider.  And trust me I'm not saying that's right or that it even makes sense.  I don't know why that is.  Is it evolutionary?  Could be!  Other animals kill some animals and not others. So do I.  Other living creatures seem to instinctually behave in certain ways without 'choosing' to, or without feeling they have a purpose, but rather because that's what instinct suggests they do (This is an assumption -  I suppose I don't know for sure if my cat chooses which animals it kills based on believing in a God or not).  It just seems to be this way for a reason.

And if the spider is so scared of me why is it in my damn bathtub eh??     Nah that's a joke. I'm no animal expert and I may be wrong about the fear thing.  I just always felt that some animals display fear as more of an instinctual thing. Can you tell me? Does a spider know what death is before it dies like we do?  When it see's me come into the bathroom does it understand WHY it feels afraid of me? Or is it just programmed into it's system to be afraid of all big moving things? If there is a difference there between how humans and spiders see death, that's what I was alluding to.

And here's a strange one for you.  If I saw a dog die in front of me that I didn't know, and then saw a human die in front of me that I didn't know... I'd be more upset about the dog.  I wonder why that is????? Strange. 

[2NaFish]

you'd rationalize the death of the human as something as being not your fault or something that they'd brought on themselves. much in the same way as, chances are, you'd ignore someone who had collapsed in the street.

the dog, you would see as being blameless and capable of no evil of its own making.

probably.

[Beanie]

you'd rationalize the death of the human as something as being not your fault or something that they'd brought on themselves. much in the same way as, chances are, you'd ignore someone who had collapsed in the street.

the dog, you would see as being blameless and capable of no evil of its own making.

probably.

Agreed.  As long as you are referring to people collapsed due to alcohol or similar and not a medical issue.  And if I wasn't sure I'd probably have a poke n' check.

But you're right, I would automatically assume the dog had done no wrong... 

[Rocket Queen]

The people collapsing in the streets thing... what's that psychological term describing the phenomenon of "someone else will help them".... Phsyc 101 is slipping my memory... but basically there were these studies that showed that one is less likely to get help on a street filled with 100 people than for example 1. Why? Because everyone assumes that someone ELSE will help the victim.

This is why people get visibly robbed or raped on open streets. People transfer responsibility to someone else. I've seen it action several times. I have called the police/ambulance at least three times on the same block in Norway. 1 of them was an old man falling down and bleeding, 3 people ignored him, walked passed, I stopped, asked how he was doing, called an ambulance, when I stop, an other lady rushes over, this is usually the case.

That's also often the case, people judge, they don't wanna help people because they're intoxicated and therefore "don't deserve help". Shit happens, if someone slipped a roofie in my drink and I ended up passed out in the middle of a square, I'd appreciate if someone at least called the ambulance for me/po po. Someone that will try to fish me up with their plastic gloves.

 You don't even have to touch them if you're so afraid of the HIV. You can call the people hired to do it, 911 is free to call. If it turns out he's a regular drunk, they can maybe give him some brochures to a help center or they'll know and leave him be. Simple as that.

[2NaFish]

queenie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese is the case that always gets taught in undergaduate psych classes. And very telling it is too. diffusion of responsibility irrc.

Must say, i've made a special point of always going to help people i've seen collapsed over the last few years. 4 times i've done it now. 4 times they were actually pished and just needed to sleep it off. 3 times they asked to called an ambulance and those 3 times they abused the ambulance staff and were arrested for being drunk and disorderly. I'll still keep helping as they really did bring it on themselves and the next time it might actually save someone's life.

[Beanie]

The people collapsing in the streets thing... what's that psychological term describing the phenomenon of "someone else will help them".... Phsyc 101 is slipping my memory... but basically there were these studies that showed that one is less likely to get help on a street filled with 100 people than for example 1. Why? Because everyone assumes that someone ELSE will help the victim.

This is why people get visibly robbed or raped on open streets. People transfer responsibility to someone else. I've seen it action several times. I have called the police/ambulance at least three times on the same block in Norway. 1 of them was an old man falling down and bleeding, 3 people ignored him, walked passed, I stopped, asked how he was doing, called an ambulance, when I stop, an other lady rushes over, this is usually the case.

That's also often the case, people judge, they don't wanna help people because they're intoxicated and therefore "don't deserve help". Shit happens, if someone slipped a roofie in my drink and I ended up passed out in the middle of a square, I'd appreciate if someone at least called the ambulance for me/po po. Someone that will try to fish me up with their plastic gloves.

 You don't even have to touch them if you're so afraid of the HIV. You can call the people hired to do it, 911 is free to call. If it turns out he's a regular drunk, they can maybe give him some brochures to a help center or they'll know and leave him be. Simple as that.

I guess you're right.  I suppose it depends on the level of 'collapsed'.  Collapsed/sleeping on a bench, inside the bus station or on the church steps like the 10/15 people I pass every night that I walk home from town, or collapsed unconscious in a place or position that would suggest they were in some real trouble... I've never actually seen the latter!  I'd like to think if I did I would at least check if they were ok. No actually I'm sure I would. I realise that if I was a perfect person I'd check every single one of them.

[Rocket Queen]

Sure, at times it can be difficult to decide, and someone in a sleeping bag under a tree, needs different help than an ambulance. I live in Atlanta, in a nice part of town, but there's hobos sleeping out on the streets right by my house, polite all of them, I chat with them whenever I pass, there's a soup kitchen by my house that helps them out. But it's shitty to go inside my own warm house when they have to sleep out there. I wonder how so many people on these streets can make it, I run past old ladies in wheelchairs that are on the streets. It's a whole new level of messed up. Not that I come from some isolated case, Paris is notorious for its large amount of homeless. I can't even count on my hands the amount of people in beaten up suits I've seen running down the street screaming.

I can understand that people are afraid of street people. They smell, look pretty rough and some of them are on crack and are pretty fucking cracked out. What I can't understand though is people who fear someone laying down, bleeding on the streets. It's all about realizing that a little call or "are you ok? What's your name?" goes a long way. I'm no saint, I get scared when the occasional crazy approaches me in the dark, then again, anyone approaching/sneaking up on a woman in the dark should know that it's scary business. Most homeless folk have common sense and go out of their way to make sure they're not intimidating anyone and are quite harmless.

queenie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese is the case that always gets taught in undergaduate psych classes. And very telling it is too. diffusion of responsibility irrc.

Must say, i've made a special point of always going to help people i've seen collapsed over the last few years. 4 times i've done it now. 4 times they were actually pished and just needed to sleep it off. 3 times they asked to called an ambulance and those 3 times they abused the ambulance staff and were arrested for being drunk and disorderly. I'll still keep helping as they really did bring it on themselves and the next time it might actually save someone's life.

There you go. Yeah, that is often the case. More often then not, when calling for help, I have to lie and literally beg them to come. "Is he a hobo?" "Is he intoxicated?", the po po is out on the streets, they can take the time to check up on people. That's what I give them my tax money to do. I'd rather make the mistake of giving help where it's not needed, then the other way around.