Snap... "we" (Americans/people in America) just lost our Due Process of Law NDAA

[Rocket Queen]

NDAA & Obama: Defenders Are Wrong - Here's Why

Short intro to what this means.

Outrageous. Love how Obama signed this on NYE and as always the American media is ignoring crucial domestic coverage.

President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) today, allowing indefinite detention to be codified into law. As you know, the White House had threatened to veto an earlier version of the NDAA but reversed course shortly before Congress voted on the final bill. While President Obama issued a signing statement saying he had “serious reservations” about the provisions, the statement only applies to how his administration would use it and would not affect how the law is interpreted by subsequent administrations.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/NDAA

 

[Rocket Queen]

Not even the Americans on here care that we've lost our right to trial, on U.S soil?


That would be why this happened. People need to open their eyes.

[Sean]

RQ  I just found out.   Sneaky and plain wrong.

I will write O again how he is losing my vote. or lost.   

There are a couple Republicans I like, but don't think can compete and the only (R) ones that can compete ... so far will continue to step all over our civil liberties.  So really complicates things.

[Iconic Shawn]

I think it has less to do with caring about it than it does "is there anything anyone can really do about ANY of this?"

Our politicians are in a league of their own. I really feel like they might as well be Lords and such like back in the old days.

Obama came in as this dude who was going to change everything. Right. As in, yeah right.

I honestly don't think it matters who's voted in. These guys don't care about anything but remaining relevant and remaining in power. The machine is broken but it sure as hell works for them and as long as thats the case, they're going to ride it out.

The fact that we "vote", I believe, is just like them throwing us a bone.

Like giving a girl thats being raped the choice of where you're fucking her. Really nice.

I might sound a little crazy.. but I think the only thing that will shake this country and put "we the people" back on the map would be a mass assassination of some elected officials.

~S~

[Rocket Queen]

Glad to see some reactions. There are things we can do about this. Is this continue with our daily lives like nothing happened? No.

A lot of people really have no idea that this is going on, why? Because the news corporations in the U.S don't follow their duties as journalists, which is to inform the public about things that concern them. This has been largely ignored by the American media moguls.

[Sean]

IS

That could probably get you detained without trial.  haha fuck that.    anyway yea I do agree some radical change is better than masturbating things along all the time until the next fraud thinks of a new plan etc

Glad to see some reactions. There are things we can do about this. Is this continue with our daily lives like nothing happened? No.

A lot of people really have no idea that this is going on, why? Because the news corporations in the U.S don't follow their duties as journalists, which is to inform the public about things that concern them. This has been largely ignored by the American media moguls.

yea instead of giving up, I know there are some groups out there that help save many of our citizen rights.  ACLU etc.....   

[Rocket Queen]

There are many people that care. And I don't really buy that people don't give a shit, I think it's more a case of not understanding or grasping what is going on.

We can't see people being detained indefinitely without trial, so we just don't think it will be or is an issue. You got to dig deeper to find the stories. But there are many of them, of course, most of them are American Muslims, so people's ignorance about Islam makes their case weaker.

[Iconic Shawn]

...there are many of them, of course, most of them are American Muslims, so people's ignorance about Islam makes their case weaker.

?

Are you saying that American muslims are detained?

And exactly what about Islam are people ignorant about?

~S~

[mooney]

...there are many of them, of course, most of them are American Muslims, so people's ignorance about Islam makes their case weaker.

?

And exactly what about Islam are people ignorant about?

~S~

It's not so much that people are ignorant to the beliefs, as most people are  -including myself - largely ignorant to the content of many religious beliefs (in fact, the worst culprits i believe are christian not knowing their own doctrines very well at all). It's more the way 'muslim' has become virtually synonymous with the word 'terrorist'. That's a more serious problem.

[Rocket Queen]

That is exactly what I mean by ignorant. Many think that terrorism is a synonym of Islam. Most muslims are largely offended by this, because it does not reflect reality.

Shawn: If American muslims have been wiretapped and detained before? Yes. There's a good (and funny) Colbert Report episode that talks about one example.. give you link later if you're interested.

[2NaFish]

given there's a billion or so muslims, i'd imagine if they were all terrorists we'd be fucked.

[Rocket Queen]

That we would.

[mooney]

Here's a really brilliant and scathing article that helps to contextualise the NDAA legislation:

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-world-war-on-democracy-by-john-pilger

Enjoy.

[Iconic Shawn]

It's more the way 'muslim' has become virtually synonymous with the word 'terrorist'. That's a more serious problem.

In regard to Muslims my man, what happened? Did people one day spin a bottle for what religious group should be associated with terrorism and it just happened to land on Muslims? Is that what happened?

No one in the world believes that all Muslims are terrorist. Especially not those in their own community but the fact that Muslims in that part of the world which is pretty much Muslim are world known for using extreme measures to force their way of life or even WILL of life on others can't be denied.

Even as a kid I remember there ALWAYS being suicide bombings in the middle east and growing up it did and still does seem like something normal that happens there. I know it shouldn't be but it in FACT is.

Also, the Muslim community, IMO, has not done enough to stand up to and against these extremist who 'give them a bad name'.

If a group of Catholics went into a mosque in Iran or where ever in the middle east and committed suicide bombings not only would the pope be on TV condemning and maybe even apologizing for the act but Catholics and Christians world wide would be, I think, VERY vocal in speaking out against acting like that as well as even being sorry that the act was committed by someone waving 'their' flag.

You also would never find footage of New Yorkers in the streets celebrating by burning Iraqi or Iranian flags chanting "glory and praise be to God" and "death to all Middle Eastern terrorist (as opposed to their chants of "death to all westerners, Americans, Christians, etc)!".

Again, I'm not saying all of them are terrorist, of course not, but to look at someone awkward for looking at Muslims with a bit of worry or a red flag going off in their head is ridiculous and unfair.

Does that mean the person has to treat the Muslim differently or whatever? No. But an honest red flag does, understandable, go off.

~S~

[2NaFish]

if catholics committed bombings the pope would apologize? give me strength.

[mooney]

It's more the way 'muslim' has become virtually synonymous with the word 'terrorist'. That's a more serious problem.

In regard to Muslims my man, what happened? Did people one day spin a bottle for what religious group should be associated with terrorism and it just happened to land on Muslims? Is that what happened?

What happened? Well, by pure chance, the worlds richest and most sought after energy resources happened to reside in that part of the world. To quote/paraphrase (i may not recall the quotes verbatim) President Eisenhower, the middle east is, "the greatest material prize in world", "a tremendous source of strategic power" and that "whoever controls mid-eastern oil reserves controls the world". Muslims are the worlds primary **VICTIMS** of terror, mostly western (or western backed) terror - shall i run through the list?. Seeing as you like them so much, that is indeed a FACT.

No one in the world believes that all Muslims are terrorist. Especially not those in their own community but the fact that Muslims in that part of the world which is pretty much Muslim are world known for using extreme measures to force their way of life or even WILL of life on others can't be denied.

Even as a kid I remember there ALWAYS being suicide bombings in the middle east and growing up it did and still does seem like something normal that happens there. I know it shouldn't be but it in FACT is.

Are you aware that the US and the UK funded and supported extremist groups? It's standard policy - in fact, we've done something very similar in Libya. Our strategic interests (when i say 'our', i dont mean you and me, unless of course you're in the oil industry, arms trade, a financial investor etc...) coincided with a bunch armed, quite brutal and extreme bunch - the 'rebels'. If you look over declassified files, or just read a book by someone who has done the leg work for you, you'll see that government officials recognise these extremist groups to be, as you say, 'extreme' and also anti-UK/US. Policy goals come first in foreign affairs, so we have no problem with supporting brutal groups and regimes if our interests are mutual - in fact, brutal regimes are preferred by our democracy loving leaders. It's all publicly available information from internal records.

Furthermore, who is 'forcing their way of life on anyone' in the US or UK? Muslims? Hardly... try the socio-economic policies imposed on you and me, and, worse, the same ideologies imposed on say, innocent Iraqis and Afghans, by violence and aggression, carried out in your name and mine.

Also, the Muslim community, IMO, has not done enough to stand up to and against these extremist who 'give them a bad name'.

Err, just because you don't know of any personally, or haven't read any Muslims openly standing up against acts of violence, doesn't mean the community hasn't "done enough". Maybe it means you haven't done enough to investigate your own claim? Maybe you are looking in the right places? Food for thought, surely? Also, given that terrorism can be perpetuated by anyone, against anyone, irrespective of race or religion, is it not a bit odd (not least hypocritical) to request muslims condemn other muslims, while at the same time, we heap praise upon our 'brave' sevicemen and women? Or, by default, refer to soldiers as 'heros' who 'defend our country'...?

If a group of Catholics went into a mosque in Iran or where ever in the middle east and committed suicide bombings not only would the pope be on TV condemning and maybe even apologizing for the act but Catholics and Christians world wide would be, I think, VERY vocal in speaking out against acting like that as well as even being sorry that the act was committed by someone waving 'their' flag.

You're a christian, right? Why then aren't you out there speaking out against and condemning western state terror? A million dead Iraqi's as a result of the invasion, on top of 500,000 children under the age of 5 left dead as a result of 'genocidal' (quoting Denis Haliday) UK and US imposed sanction during the 90's, 4.5 million people displaced, and the town of Fallujah completely fucked: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/toxic-legacy-of-us-assault-on-fallujah-worse-than-hiroshima-2034065.html

Add to that, conservative estimates of 40,000 dead Afghans, tens of thousands dead in libya after our support for violence, a couple thousand dead in pakistan as a result of drone attacks (euphemistically called targeted assassinations but reality just murder with a fancy toy). I won't even bother with support for vicious regimes, Israel/Palestine etc...

[Rocket Queen]

Not to forget the Protestant/Catholic divide in Britain and the terror that ensued. Does the I.R.A ring a bell? If not, I think you need a quick google and watch In The Name of Thy Father. Don't assume that Muslims are the only religious groups who have used violent methods. The difference is that the Protestant/Catholic war was mainly a religious war, in contrast with much of the terrorism that affects us in the Western World that is not fueled by religious conflict, but other types of conflict...

[Sean]

We Didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel - WITH LYRICS

[Sean]

I'd just like to point out how pointless my above post was.  but was so pointless to show how pointless pointless points.

All in all, all those in favor of Sean's worse post in 2012 'We didn't start the fire' ?

[Rocket Queen]

WE DIDN'T START THE FIRE LALALALALALALA

[polar]

umm no we didn't... obama is the best president ever, you are obviously using a slippery slope argument