What was the last book you read ?

[Milles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

That's kinda important, y'know... Even today you can see the influence in things like 3rd wave feminism.  How do you reconcile the obvious importance of the theory of forms that you do concede with the idea that there's little of philosophical value to take from Plato?  The cave even covers that whole objectivity/subjectivity thing you're attributing to Descartes pretty well.

I'll give Descartes the badge of importance, yeah.  I left him off my list because I don't like him, which isn't really a very good way of judging how important people are, I guess...

I was saying that he is important historically in terms of the influence his theory of the forms held as being names for things i.e. a class of abstract objects which Russell called universals. Although, as I mentioned their accounts are mistaken, however philosophers don't normally pay a great deal of attention to such things since the ontological status of these objects is neither construed as mental nor physical. Hence because his account fails and such, that's why I said it wasn't particularly valuable. I guess The Euthyphro is a good text in terms of questioning religious values and I do like texts such as the Gorgias for the critique of rhetoric and what not (which is basically the criticism of democracy).

One thing I do think is important in reading Plato, if not philosophical then historical, is the division in Athenian society at the time between what may be considered the moral conservatives who looked to the Homeric virtues of loyalty to one's kin and what not, those who held loyalty to the state, Sophists who thought it was merely a matter of convention and moral realists such as the three wise men of Athens.

I don't see how the allegory of the cave particularly relates to subjectivity. Subjectivity concerns objects in the mind to which the individual cannot be mistaken about their reality since it is real to them i.e. their appearances exhaust their reality and vice versa. The cave allegory seems to merely show that individuals may have a mistaken or limited form of perception.

[Milles]

I'll give Descartes the badge of importance, yeah.  I left him off my list because I don't like him, which isn't really a very good way of judging how important people are, I guess...

Yes but having an understanding of Descartes and what's wrong with his account of mind and mentality is fundamental to understanding how philosophy basically went astray by just focusing on epistemological matters for about another four hundred years as well as the unnecessary positions invented to try and overcome Cartesian scepticism such as idealism and phenomenalism.

[Dark Angel]

The big book of Top Gear 2009

 

[nemo]

Hence because his account fails and such, that's why I said it wasn't particularly valuable.

Yes but having an understanding of Descartes and what's wrong with his account of mind and mentality is fundamental

How is it then that Plato's of little importance because some of his ideas turned out to be wrong whereas Descartes becomes the most important thinker in Western philosophy because... some of his ideas turned out to be wrong.  Surely you're not about to tell me that the development of the subject wasn't aided by quite a bit of discussion of the relative rights and wrongs of Platonic thinking?

I'd be interested to see if there's still a school of Neo-Cartesians kicking about in the year 4,000.

[Milles]

How is it then that Plato's of little importance because some of his ideas turned out to be wrong whereas Descartes becomes the most important thinker in Western philosophy because... some of his ideas turned out to be wrong.  Surely you're not about to tell me that the development of the subject wasn't aided by quite a bit of discussion of the relative rights and wrongs of Platonic thinking?

I'd be interested to see if there's still a school of Neo-Cartesians kicking about in the year 4,000.

Because Plato's ideas did no where near as much damage to philosophy as a discipline, it's not just that they were wrong. Plato's notion of predicates as names had been dismissed by the time Aristotle came along whereas pretty much everyone after Descartes become something like an idealist or at the very least a representative realist.
Not many of the well known philosophers who followed Plato however really bothered to give an account of predication (since predicates are not names of things) and the debate over what predication is didn't advance much further than the Medieval nominalists and realists.

[1_sara_1]

Sarah Jacquet - Le Jour oú j'ai grandi
(translated )

[mico.m]

Danilo Kis- "A Tomb for Boris Davidovich"

[Milles]

I'd be interested to see if there's still a school of Neo-Cartesians kicking about in the year 4,000.

Oh, and if you are still not convinced by his ever present legacy why not step into a bookshop, look in the popular science section and you will find a books with titles like "The Problem of Consciousness" or "What is Consciousness?" all of these writers - whilst they may deny dualism - imply dualism when they express an awareness of one's mental states in Cartesian terminology.

[muppit]

twilight - stephanie meyer

just bought it today gonna start reading it later on

[ErikRagerAxlFriend69777]

Dune Messiah by Frank Herbert... .it took me about 5 hours.

I am waiting for Children of Dune though I have read all the Dune books before.... I was mainely stoned out of my mind when I did... they are refreshing read anknew

[Buckethead@Love]

Dune Messiah by Frank Herbert... .it took me about 5 hours.

I am waiting for Children of Dune though I have read all the Dune books before.... I was mainely stoned out of my mind when I did... they are refreshing read anknew

anknew ... What?!!

[2NaFish]

the damned utd.

it is actually a good book, and i'm looking forward to the film just so long as it doesnt become 'life on mars' but football themed. i'm all for nostalgia - although its not what it used to be - but the topic could actually be quite fruitful.

still, the book will always annoy me in that it wasn't released untill most of the protagonists were dead which makes me think it is alot more based in fiction that fact. still, it talks up Dave McKay and and he's an absolut hero, so well done for that.

[anythinggoes]

You know what its been years since i sat down a read a book, well actually 2 years and that was The Dirt. I just cant find the time to sit down and read, which is a shame as i used to enjoy it. 

[Milles]

Against All Gods by A C Grayling

Very short but very entertaining